comp.lang.idl-pvwave archive - RDF feed
type: channel
description: Messages from Usenet group comp.lang.idl-pvwave, compiled by Paulo Penteado
items: Re: Other IDL / Mac advantages
items: RE: Other IDL / Mac advantages

Re: Other IDL / Mac advantages
type: item
description: &nbsp; "Wolf Schweitzer" &lt;<A href="mailto:wuff@swisswuff.ch"><FONT face=Arial size=2>wuff@swisswuff.ch&gt; wrote in message <A href="news:3BD678DC.9050505@swisswuff.ch"><FONT face=Arial size=2>news:3BD678DC.9050505@swisswuff.ch<FONT face=Arial size=2>... &gt; To me, there is a misconception that some people assume we are using &gt; Macs because of their "cutsy" interface and that can be "over" now. The graphic user interface between different operating systems is only a tool used to created by different companies to allow you to perform work and create things using the hardware that is available to that particular system. The major debate over the GUI's does not really matter when the hardware aspect is not considered. THE CAUSE OF THE MAC&nbsp;OS&nbsp;VS PC OS DEBATE IS BASED SOLELY ON WHAT GUI YOU ARE MOST FAMILAR WITH. That is all that should be considered. How quickly can you get the work you need to get done on a particluar operating system is based on previous amount of time spent using that operating system IN ADDITION TO WHAT HARDWARE YOU MACHINE HAS. &nbsp; &gt; An important advantage for IDL on Macintosh is its ability to do &gt; parameter-passing with Applescript. In order to understand the &gt; usefulness of that you need to know what other applications also do &gt; Applescript on a Mac OS. &nbsp; &nbsp; This is a true statement, as you can see... &nbsp; ***** IDL 5.5 Functional Summary Development &amp; Programming Tools Macintosh AppleScript support ***** &nbsp; This is also supported under a windows enviroment. &nbsp; ****** IDL 5.5 Functional Summary Development &amp; Programming Tools Callable Windows DLL ActiveX control (dual interface) <FONT face=Arial size=1>****** <FONT face=Arial size=1>&nbsp; &gt; As Applescript would not sell without Mac OS and we are all happy it's &gt; also part of Mac OS X, I think that IDL would need to be shipped with &gt; Mac OS X - it is just an essential ingredient for the scientific &gt; Macintosh community. I do …
creator: Logan Lindquist
date: 2001-10-24T16:02:07-00:00

Re: Other IDL / Mac advantages
type: item
description: "Richard Cooke" <rcooke@rsinc.com> wrote in message news:<9r6l4f$lsr$1@news.rsinc.com>... "Not to worry, IDL will not turn its back on its cross platform roots." "We are committed to finding a solution that works for our customers on the Mac, if we can just have a few more days to sort some things out I think we can come out with some positive news."
creator: Logan Lindquist
date: 2001-10-24T16:08:03-00:00

RE: Other IDL / Mac advantages
type: item
description: Firstly, Logan, please update your virus definition files as it is clear that you have an outlook virus. Nobody on this newsgroup needs to see where you get your porn. > ===== Original Message From "Logan Lindquist" <llindqusit@mrdoc.cc> ===== > The graphic user interface between different operating systems is only a tool > used to created by different companies to allow you to perform work and create > things using the hardware that is available to that particular system. The > major debate over the GUI's does not really matter when the hardware aspect is > not considered. THE CAUSE OF THE MAC OS VS PC OS DEBATE IS BASED SOLELY ON > WHAT GUI YOU ARE MOST FAMILAR WITH. That is all that should be considered. How > quickly can you get the work you need to get done on a particluar operating > system is based on previous amount of time spent using that operating system > IN ADDITION TO WHAT HARDWARE YOU MACHINE HAS. Apple employs a team of cognitive psychologists who understand how people interact with computers. This is the core reason that Apple operating systems have books defining how applications must behave and how a gui is to be presented. The fact that RSI is choosing to ignore this and develop IDL based on an antiquated/illogical unix interface is disappointing to many mac users. Microsoft's windows API doesn't define the same standard which is why each windows developer can use different control/function keys, menus, and widgets in a windows application. [snip] > I do not know the details of porting stuff that has been written for Linux > over to OS X but I wouldn't image that they would be much different, since OS > X is based on a Linux kernel. IDL already supports Linux on Alpha's and x86. > So the real question is if they already have a compilation that is somewhat > similar, and there is enough support to figure out the details of porting the > x86 Linux or the Alpha Linux over to OS X, why not start an open sourced > development of such? Why do windows u…
creator: Ron Syml
date: 2001-10-24T17:19:53-00:00

RE: Other IDL / Mac advantages
type: item
description: Ron Syml (RonSmyl@MailAndNews.com) writes: > PS: I was a idl-pvwave newsgroup lurker, before RSI dropped macos. I'm telling you Logan, taking the role of an RSI apologist is hard enough, but when the lurkers start taking pot-shots at you, you know you're hit a real deep vein. Take it from one who has some experience feeling their wrath. :-) Cheers, David P.S. Let's just say I've always believed that dissent in the face of overwhelming public opinion is not only necessary, it is a requirement of a democratic society. -- David W. Fanning, Ph.D. Fanning Software Consulting Phone: 970-221-0438, E-mail: david@dfanning.com Coyote's Guide to IDL Programming: http://www.dfanning.com/ Toll-Free IDL Book Orders: 1-888-461-0155
creator: David Fanning
date: 2001-10-24T17:39:21-00:00

Re: Other IDL / Mac advantages
type: item
description: "Ron Syml" <RonSmyl@MailAndNews.com> wrote in message news:3BD9137E@MailAndNews.com... > Firstly, Logan, please update your virus definition files as it is clear > that > you have an outlook virus. Nobody on this newsgroup needs to see where you > get your porn. Ron, I don't control my virus def unfortunatley. The sys admin's have control over the norton antiviri corporate edition. I don't agree with it, because they won't tell me about how it works, only don't worry about it. This makes me angry when instances such as this occur. What exactly are you referring to anyways? I posted the replys to postings that I think you are referring to, to show that I had taken lengths beyond the normal user, in that I reported the spam to whoever is supposed to take care of it via spamcop. I don't think that it came from my computer here at work. To assume that it was I that sent it mean and hateful, I resent your personal attack on my use of this group. Logan
creator: Logan Lindquist
date: 2001-10-24T18:04:10-00:00

Re: Other IDL / Mac advantages
type: item
description: David, > I'm telling you Logan, taking the role of an RSI apologist > is hard enough, but when the lurkers start taking > pot-shots at you, you know you're hit a real deep > vein. Take it from one who has some experience > feeling their wrath. :-) Some of my post this morning wasn't written so well, but I feel that strongly about the difference that Mac users go on toting about sometimes. I truely believe that hardware aside it all comes down to a familiarity issue which can be resolved by time spent with a different operating system. To limit yourself to one operating system is something that I don't like to do. To compare hardware is difficult since the manufactures and OEM's don't exactly release engineering specs. on all the products that they endorse, sell. For Mac vs PC is comes down to what the task is that you are performing. Some Mac's are SCSI Hard Disks and the new G3 & G4's have a 128bit architecture, compared to less SCSI in personal Windows machines that are all running on 32bit architecture. I find that a Win NT/2000 machine to be much more stable than an OS 9 LE [less than or equal to = IDL code ;)] . This is important during development when memory leaks and IDL crashes can cause you to restart on a less than stable operating system. It is said that the main market for Mac's are graphic[artists, photographers, printers] in nature. I didn't realize the exent of the devotion in the scientific community, whom should know better. > P.S. Let's just say I've always believed that > dissent in the face of overwhelming public > opinion is not only necessary, it is a requirement > of a democratic society. I thought are political system was a democratic republic. Maybe people overseas or those who are not concerned with keeping the company profitable might not understand the business decisions that managers have to make. Not that capitalism doesn't have negative social affects in our culture, or that I agree it's the best way. Also I understand the venomance t…
creator: Logan Lindquist
date: 2001-10-24T18:37:49-00:00

Re: Other IDL / Mac advantages
type: item
description: Ron Syml wrote: > > Apple employs a team of cognitive psychologists who understand how people > interact with computers. This is the core reason that Apple operating > systems > have books defining how applications must behave and how a gui is to be > presented. The fact that RSI is choosing to ignore this and develop IDL > based > on an antiquated/illogical unix interface is disappointing to many mac > users. > Microsoft's windows API doesn't define the same standard which is why each > windows developer can use different control/function keys, menus, and > widgets > in a windows application. This may be a bit off-topic. Forgive my lack of knowledge about Macs (only used one once) but given that they are easy and simple to use (I'll take your word for it since every other Mac user I know says the same thing) how come they aren't the top selling system? Is it simply because Apple made a decision a million years ago not to go the IBM route and license (or whatever) the hardware to all and sundry? If so, it certainly kept the Apple gene pool untainted but at what cost? I don't think I have ever studied/worked anywhere where Macs were seriously considered because they were simply so much more expensive than equivalent PC type systems. That may not be true anymore, but now there is a large number of folks out there that are, uh..., "attuned" to the Windows environment. My one personal experience with a Mac was many many years ago when the person showing me how to use it (my up-to-then experience wholly with VAX-VMS and Unix systems) stared blankly at me when I asked how to open up a term window so I could hunt around the system looking at stuff. It's a really stupid thing, but I get sorta uncomfortable when I *don't* have the ability to delete the root partition (ah, memories). Probably a human-computer inferiority complex or something.... paulv -- Paul van Delst Religious and cultural CIMSS @ NOAA/NCEP purity is a fundamentalist Ph: (301)763-8000 x7274 fantasy Fax:(301…
creator: Paul van Delst
date: 2001-10-24T18:44:12-00:00

Re: Other IDL / Mac advantages
type: item
description: In article <3BD70BFC.1A56F25F@noaa.gov>, Paul van Delst <paul.vandelst@noaa.gov> wrote: > Ron Syml wrote: >> >> Apple employs a team of cognitive psychologists who understand how people >> interact with computers. This is the core reason that Apple operating >> systems >> have books defining how applications must behave and how a gui is to be >> presented. The fact that RSI is choosing to ignore this and develop IDL >> based >> on an antiquated/illogical unix interface is disappointing to many mac >> users. >> Microsoft's windows API doesn't define the same standard which is why each >> windows developer can use different control/function keys, menus, and >> widgets >> in a windows application. > > This may be a bit off-topic. > > Forgive my lack of knowledge about Macs (only used one once) but given that > they are easy and > simple to use (I'll take your word for it since every other Mac user I know > says the same > thing) how come they aren't the top selling system? Is it simply because > Apple made a decision > a million years ago not to go the IBM route and license (or whatever) the > hardware to all and > sundry? If so, it certainly kept the Apple gene pool untainted but at what > cost? I don't think > I have ever studied/worked anywhere where Macs were seriously considered > because they were > simply so much more expensive than equivalent PC type systems. That may not > be true anymore, > but now there is a large number of folks out there that are, uh..., "attuned" > to the Windows > environment. > > My one personal experience with a Mac was many many years ago when the person > showing me how to > use it (my up-to-then experience wholly with VAX-VMS and Unix systems) stared > blankly at me > when I asked how to open up a term window so I could hunt around the system > looking at stuff. > It's a really stupid thing, but I get sorta uncomfortable when I *don't* have > the ability to > delete the root partition (ah, memories). Probably a human-computer > infe…
creator: Ken Prager
date: 2001-10-24T20:03:01-00:00

Re: Other IDL / Mac advantages
type: item
description: yeahhhh rm -rf / kick it!!! ;b
creator: gogosgogos
date: 2001-10-25T15:11:53-00:00

Re: Other IDL / Mac advantages
type: item
description: Ken Prager wrote: > > I'm not even going to comment on the Mac v. PC stuff. Probably a wise choice. > However, Paul, > you'll be happy to know that with the advent of Mac OS X you may open > all of the term windows your heart desires and delete all of the root > partition files you wish to--however, I'm glad I'm not your sys admin. Harrumph! I have an extremely good relationship with (all) my sysadmins. :o) Just because I *can* do something doesn't mean I *will* ...... paulv -- Paul van Delst Religious and cultural CIMSS @ NOAA/NCEP purity is a fundamentalist Ph: (301)763-8000 x7274 fantasy Fax:(301)763-8545 V.S.Naipaul
creator: Paul van Delst
date: 2001-10-25T15:23:16-00:00

Re: Other IDL / Mac advantages
type: item
description: Ken Prager wrote: > > I'm not even going to comment on the Mac v. PC stuff. However, Paul, > you'll be happy to know that with the advent of Mac OS X you may open > all of the term windows your heart desires and delete all of the root > partition files you wish to--however, I'm glad I'm not your sys admin. I'd rather say, I am glad Paul is not my sys admin... :) Cheers, Pavel
creator: Pavel A. Romashkin
date: 2001-10-25T16:37:17-00:00

Re: Other IDL / Mac advantages
type: item
description: On Wed, 24 Oct 2001 14:44:12 -0400, Paul van Delst <paul.vandelst@noaa.gov> wrote: > > This may be a bit off-topic. > > Forgive my lack of knowledge about Macs ... <cut> you're forgiven :^) ! > I don't think > I have ever studied/worked anywhere where Macs were seriously considered > because they were ... <cut again> did you ever study at Yale, Harvard, MIT? Macintosh and Apple have always been pioneers in computer world. They are the BMW's and Mercedes of desktop computers. Yes, Ford Fiesta is more common, but it does not follow that they are better. The preponderance of PC's is a market phenomena, the preponderance of Microsoft products (especially OS's) is a direct result of that companies ability to manipulate the market, other companies and even the government. It doesn't attest to any form of superiority (technical or otherwise). Indeed, it is well known that Apple has always used superior hardware and usually Macs have the latest innovations incorporated at least 1 year ahead of the PC world. Quality of the systems is much easier to control using the Apple hardware philosophy. Apple clones are also available, and are competitve with PC's. In recent years, I would say that the Macintosh's are actually a better deal in some cases: consider the iBook, can you get G4 500 MHz, firewire, usb, dvd on a PC for $1200? -- Steve S. steve@NOSPAMmailaps.org remove NOSPAM before replying
creator: nobody@nowhere.com (S
date: 2001-10-25T23:09:58-00:00

Re: Other IDL / Mac advantages
type: item
description: Just got back from holiday, interesting note Logan Lindquist sent. His E-mail confirms that, yes, many people think all Mac users are after is some kind of "artsy" thing and really can't, can't, can't let go of that notion. By posting some copied text that says that IDL supports Apple Script on Macs (thanks, thanks), he apparently thinks Mac users are also so stupid they can't read that themselves. Too funny. But then, it escapes many people that Swatch, the Swiss fashion watch maker company, now also sell a full sized "chrono watch" model that weighs only 60 gr. (Aluminium casing); most just talk about the shee shee stuff of that company and buy the 150 gr. Steel model. Shlepp :-) Functionality may hide beneath good design :-) But anyone saying that IDL on Mac OS 9 looks "artsy" possibly shows themselves off as ignorants, since it may have escaped them that the IDL widgets don't even follow the preMacOSX GUI in any strict way. Instead, IDL on Mac has some general IDL appearance :-) Personally, I would not be the least bit interested in the way any IDL knob or window looks on the widget interface as long as I can get and enter information and run and develop my software. IDL is brilliant since it saves an enormous time developing solutions based on the way the language is implemented: Applescript is to other tools in interapplication scripting like IDL to other ways of producing analytical results and graphical displays from matrix data: it is possible to do it with other tools, but I they just suck. Of course, Logan is right, one could possibly try all kinds of systems, OSes or languages any time on any platform, and they all compare pretty well on a "to do" basis. But maybe (?) if you are good and happy doing it with one, it's a pretty good thing to continue doing it with that one if all you want to do is continuing to doing that - which is precisely what I had in mind with my little setup here. As I am in fact using Apple Script as a specific interface language o…
creator: Wolf Schweitzer
date: 2001-10-27T21:54:57-00:00

Re: Other IDL / Mac advantages
type: item
description: Just got back from holiday, interesting note Logan Lindquist sent. His E-mail confirms that, yes, many people think all Mac users are after is some kind of "artsy" thing and really can't, can't, can't let go of that notion. By posting some copied text that says that IDL supports Apple Script on Macs (thanks, thanks), he apparently thinks Mac users are also so stupid they can't read that themselves. Too funny. But then, it escapes many people that Swatch, the Swiss fashion watch maker company, now also sell a full sized "chrono watch" model that weighs only 60 gr. (Aluminium casing); most just talk about the shee shee stuff of that company and buy the 150 gr. Steel model. Shlepp :-) Functionality may hide beneath good design :-) But anyone saying that IDL on Mac OS 9 looks "artsy" possibly shows themselves off as ignorants, since it may have escaped them that the IDL widgets don't even follow the preMacOSX GUI in any strict way. Instead, IDL on Mac has some general IDL appearance :-) Personally, I would not be the least bit interested in the way any IDL knob or window looks on the widget interface as long as I can get and enter information and run and develop my software. IDL is brilliant since it saves an enormous time developing solutions based on the way the language is implemented: Applescript is to other tools in interapplication scripting like IDL to other ways of producing analytical results and graphical displays from matrix data: it is possible to do it with other tools, but I they just suck. Of course, Logan is right, one could possibly try all kinds of systems, OSes or languages any time on any platform, and they all compare pretty well on a "to do" basis. But maybe (?) if you are good and happy doing it with one, it's a pretty good thing to continue doing it with that one if all you want to do is continuing to doing that - which is precisely what I had in mind with my little setup here. As I am in fact using Apple Script as a specific interface language o…
creator: Wolf Schweitzer
date: 2001-10-27T21:55:01-00:00

Re: Other IDL / Mac advantages
type: item
description: Just got back from holiday, interesting note Logan Lindquist sent. His E-mail confirms that, yes, many people think all Mac users are after is some kind of "artsy" thing and really can't, can't, can't let go of that notion. By posting some copied text that says that IDL supports Apple Script on Macs (thanks, thanks), he apparently thinks Mac users are also so stupid they can't read that themselves. Too funny. But then, it escapes many people that Swatch, the Swiss fashion watch maker company, now also sell a full sized "chrono watch" model that weighs only 60 gr. (Aluminium casing); most just talk about the shee shee stuff of that company and buy the 150 gr. Steel model. Shlepp :-) Functionality may hide beneath good design :-) But anyone saying that IDL on Mac OS 9 looks "artsy" possibly shows themselves off as ignorants, since it may have escaped them that the IDL widgets don't even follow the preMacOSX GUI in any strict way. Instead, IDL on Mac has some general IDL appearance :-) Personally, I would not be the least bit interested in the way any IDL knob or window looks on the widget interface as long as I can get and enter information and run and develop my software. IDL is brilliant since it saves an enormous time developing solutions based on the way the language is implemented: Applescript is to other tools in interapplication scripting like IDL to other ways of producing analytical results and graphical displays from matrix data: it is possible to do it with other tools, but I they just suck. Of course, Logan is right, one could possibly try all kinds of systems, OSes or languages any time on any platform, and they all compare pretty well on a "to do" basis. But maybe (?) if you are good and happy doing it with one, it's a pretty good thing to continue doing it with that one if all you want to do is continuing to doing that - which is precisely what I had in mind with my little setup here. As I am in fact using Apple Script as a specific interface language o…
creator: Wolf Schweitzer
date: 2001-10-27T21:56:13-00:00