comp.lang.idl-pvwave archive - RDF feed
type: channel
description: Messages from Usenet group comp.lang.idl-pvwave, compiled by Paulo Penteado
items: IDL 7.0 Preview Review
items: Re: IDL 7.0 Preview Review

IDL 7.0 Preview Review
type: item
description: Editor's Note: I apologize in advance. We had assigned our most reputable technology reporter, David Fanning, to this story, but he has come down with "food poisoning" and has taken to his bed. (At 7:30, no less!) Because we are on a tight publication deadline, we have asked our Entertainment Reporter, El Senor Coyote, to fill in for Mr. Fanning. Unfortunately, Mr. Coyote did not attend the entire presentation. (He says he found the three hour business portion of the meeting intolerable without any breaks.) What follows, then, is what Mr. Coyote has been able to cobble together from Mr. Fanning's hastily written notes and his own, imperfect memory. We apologize if events didn't transpire exactly as reported here. ############################################################ ##### Boulder, CO 13 Nov 2007 -- Excitement was in the air, and programming testosterone filled the room, as the lucky guests at the IDL 7.0 Preview and User's Group Meeting were ushered along the red carpet and into their seats shortly before 1:00. The question on everyone's mind was: What does the damn thing look like!? They were referring, of course, to the new Eclipse-based IDL development environment, now called the IDL Workbench. We had to wait nearly 20 minutes to find out, while we listened to a long history of IDL. (It first got its start in the punch card era, I guess.) Luckily, David Stern was in the audience to confirm that "Yes, that's how it happened." But that was then, and this is now, and *finally* we have found the one true course, and we can expect nothing but great things in the future for IDL. (Or something to that effect. I had to take a bathroom break.) Anyway, the new IDL Workbench sorta looks like the old IDLDE, but not quite, and its WAY cooler than anything else anyone could think of, and it works the same on every platform God ever made, which is a HUGE advantage to the IDL developers, as they only have to maintain one code base now. (Presumably freeing up some time to …
creator: David Fanning
date: 2007-11-14T05:47:11-00:00

Re: IDL 7.0 Preview Review
type: item
description: I'd say the best part was meeting people from the newsgroup in person at the reception. We need to get together more often. See below for more comments... On Nov 13, 10:47 pm, David Fanning <n...@dfanning.com> wrote: > Anyway, the new IDL Workbench sorta looks like the old IDLDE, but > not quite, and its WAY cooler than anything else anyone could > think of, and it works the same on every platform God ever made, > which is a HUGE advantage to the IDL developers, as they only > have to maintain one code base now. (Presumably freeing up some > time to work on something else, so we will get more for our > maintenance dollars, and so forth.) > > One of the developers showed us a few of its tricks. (A still > secret incantation will allow the user to hook up an RSS feed > of this very newsgroup into the Workbench environment. A feature > some people may not see as much of an advance, come to think of it.) I was surprised to learn there was a developer's RSS feed from the ITT VIS website that is displayed there now. Check out: http://www.ittvis.com/feeds/devnet.xml Now how about ones for new code contrib entries, news articles, tech tips, etc.? Trying to figure out if there were any new posts in the beta forum was a pain. How about an RSS feed? > Anyway, LOTS of new features that certainly got the presenters > pretty darned excited. Of course, the cynical programmer sitting > beside me pointed out that he had been doing everything they were > showing up there for *at least* the last five years with EMACS and > IDLWAVE mode. So I guess you could think of the IDL Workbench > as EMACS-lite, if you like. Anyway, it does some nifty things. And, as an Emacs user, what program couldn't be described as "Emacs- lite"? > Of course, if you are too old to change (it is a possibility for > some of the gray hairs sitting in the audience), those of you working > on UNIX platforms can still have access to the normal IDL command line. > If you are a Windows user, well, you are used to bei…
creator: Michael Galloy
date: 2007-11-14T17:55:56-00:00

Re: IDL 7.0 Preview Review
type: item
description: In article <MPG.21a43965961725ad98a0e4@news.frii.com>, David Fanning <news@dfanning.com> wrote: This sounds good ... > I detected a new and refreshing openness on the part of > IDL developers at this meeting to interact and engage > customers in what they really wanted. There is an openness > to working with 3rd party developers and consultants > that I have never seen before. I certainly came away > feeling that the ITTVIS people are smart, capable, > and ready to listen to user feedback. but this does not ... > After the IDL Workbench demo we got an update on where IDL is headed > in the next 3-4 years. The target audience "doesn't want to read a > manual", "wants something that looks like his Java or C++ environment", > "wants to focus on the task at hand", and "wants to get away from > programming". And--I was thinking--is dumb as a stone, but they didn't > say that. They saw no irony in IDL programmers wanting to get away from programming? Ken Bowman
creator: Kenneth P. Bowman
date: 2007-11-14T20:05:36-00:00

Re: IDL 7.0 Preview Review
type: item
description: Kenneth P. Bowman writes: > This sounds good ... > >> I detected a new and refreshing openness on the part of >> IDL developers at this meeting to interact and engage >> customers in what they really wanted. There is an openness >> to working with 3rd party developers and consultants >> that I have never seen before. I certainly came away >> feeling that the ITTVIS people are smart, capable, >> and ready to listen to user feedback. > > but this does not ... > >> After the IDL Workbench demo we got an update on where IDL is headed >> in the next 3-4 years. The target audience "doesn't want to read a >> manual", "wants something that looks like his Java or C++ environment", >> "wants to focus on the task at hand", and "wants to get away from >> programming". And--I was thinking--is dumb as a stone, but they didn't >> say that. > > They saw no irony in IDL programmers wanting to get away from programming? Well, I have been thinking about this today. Mike is absolutely right, ITTVIS is not thinking of current license holders (and they claim they have 150K "seats" of IDL out there and another 25K "seats" of ENVI). They are thinking about who they might be able to sell IDL to in the future. They coo and cluck and make you feel good, of course, since they still need your maintenance dollars, but their eyes are focused somewhere over your left shoulder, looking out into the middle distance for the lower fifty percent of your IDL class who could no more write an IDL program than they could live without their iPhone. Those people still have to do science, God help us. (Does it surprise you in the same ironic way that half the Republicans running for President in the US don't believe in evolution?) So maybe ITTVIS *is* being smart about this. Why worry about dinosaurs like us? Heck, I'm going to be happy if I can just keep from deleting all the files off my disk when I fire up that monster application! And, anyway, I'm thinking its time to look for a small village in South Ame…
creator: David Fanning
date: 2007-11-14T23:45:20-00:00

Re: IDL 7.0 Preview Review
type: item
description: I agree that ITTVIS is definitely looking for future users that don't fit into todays demographics. But that isn't necessarily bad. Look at the bridge object that came out in 6.3. I am pretty sure that ITTVIS needed to create this so that Eclipse could call IDL, but I have been using it very effectively in the analysis I do. At the Users Group they said that they are striving for an outstanding "out of the box" experience for new users to IDL in future versions. Just think of all the problems they will have to solve to make this possible. Having the data show up in the right scope is just one example. Certainly we will be able to take advantage of their advances don't you think? I am also hugely excited about their willingness to work with third party providers. I have been telling ITTVIS for years that they have the most intelligent users in the world and with just a little encouragement these people would expand IDL's capabilities for free. I believe that this has finally sunk in. It was really great seeing everyone at the Users Group. I agree with Mike that we need to get ITTVIS to sponsor these things more often. It was absolutely worth the trip to Boulder from DC. -Ronn Kling KRS, inc. email: ronn@rlkling.com Use these books to upgrade your IDL skills. "Application Development with IDL" "Calling C from IDL, Using DLM's to extend your IDL code". SECOND EDITION includes C++ and debugging! THIRD EDITION includes writing IDL object methods in C and C++! "Power Graphics with IDL, A Beginner's Guide to Object Graphics" "IDL primer" A concise introduction to IDL "Navigating the IDL workbench" Working with the new IDL 7.0 http://www.kilvarock.com
creator: rlkling
date: 2007-11-15T05:37:01-00:00

Re: IDL 7.0 Preview Review
type: item
description: Ronn, have you figured out Visual Studio debugging with IDL 7.0? This is the only fundamental problem I am worried about. Haje <rlkling@gmail.com> wrote in message news:7bcaa757-f551-4f24-9fc3-e89b115747f4@w34g2000hsg.google groups.com... > I agree that ITTVIS is definitely looking for future users that don't > fit into todays demographics. But that isn't necessarily bad. Look at > the bridge object that came out in 6.3. I am pretty sure that ITTVIS > needed to create this so that Eclipse could call IDL, but I have been > using it very effectively in the analysis I do. At the Users Group > they said that they are striving for an outstanding "out of the box" > experience for new users to IDL in future versions. Just think of all > the problems they will have to solve to make this possible. Having > the data show up in the right scope is just one example. Certainly we > will be able to take advantage of their advances don't you think? > > I am also hugely excited about their willingness to work with third > party providers. I have been telling ITTVIS for years that they have > the most intelligent users in the world and with just a little > encouragement these people would expand IDL's capabilities for free. > I believe that this has finally sunk in. > > It was really great seeing everyone at the Users Group. I agree with > Mike that we need to get ITTVIS to sponsor these things more often. > It was absolutely worth the trip to Boulder from DC. > > -Ronn Kling > > KRS, inc. > email: ronn@rlkling.com > Use these books to upgrade your IDL skills. > "Application Development with IDL" > "Calling C from IDL, Using DLM's to extend your IDL code". SECOND > EDITION includes C++ and debugging! THIRD EDITION includes writing IDL > object methods in C and C++! > "Power Graphics with IDL, A Beginner's Guide to Object Graphics" > "IDL primer" A concise introduction to IDL > "Navigating the IDL workbench" Working with the new IDL 7.0 > > http://www.kilvarock.com >
creator: Haje Korth
date: 2007-11-15T13:13:33-00:00

Re: IDL 7.0 Preview Review
type: item
description: In article <MPG.21a5367149f8346298a0eb@news.frii.com>, David Fanning <news@dfanning.com> wrote: > Well, I have been thinking about this today. Mike is absolutely > right, ITTVIS is not thinking of current license holders (and > they claim they have 150K "seats" of IDL out there and another > 25K "seats" of ENVI). They are thinking about who they might be > able to sell IDL to in the future. I guess this means that we will never get a Postscript device that full supports 24-bit color. ;-( > And, anyway, I'm thinking its time > to look for a small village in South America where I can > practice my Spanish and go fishing. There's irony for you, > an IDL programmer who is thinking of getting away from > programming. :-) Just wait until you get that new Mac. It will make IDL programming FUN again and you can always do your programming on that South American beach! Ken
creator: Kenneth P. Bowman
date: 2007-11-15T15:13:08-00:00

Re: IDL 7.0 Preview Review
type: item
description: Coyote wrote: > The bad news is, we are going to make another stab at a ToolBuilder > sometime in the future. (There is hope we might get something useable > on this, the fourth, or is it fifth?, iteration.) Correction: Someone bumped Mr. Coyote's hand as he was writing this review and he dropped his chocolate covered strawberry on the copy he submitted to the paper. The number he wrote was actually a three. It just looked like a five. Our apologies for any trouble this caused. Cheers, The Management -- David Fanning, Ph.D. Fanning Software Consulting, Inc. Coyote's Guide to IDL Programming: http://www.dfanning.com/ Sepore ma de ni thui. ("Perhaps thou speakest truth.")
creator: David Fanning
date: 2007-11-15T15:39:18-00:00

Re: IDL 7.0 Preview Review
type: item
description: Hi Haje, Yes, it is a little different than before but not too bad. Under the Debug property (I am using VS 2005) we no longer have the idlde.exe, those entries are all blank. Instead the process is. 1. Bring up VS. 2. Bring up IDL7.0 just like you would if you were running an IDL program. 3. Go back to VS and go to Debug->Attach to Process. A window will popup and choose idl_opserver.exe and either double-click it or select and press the Attach button. 4. From here on it behaves exactly as before. There may be some way to make this a little more direct but I haven't spent much time working on it. But it does seem that VS ought to have a way to launch the eclipse process and then automatically attach to the idl_opserver.exe that gets created. If anyone figures that out let me know and I will do the same. -Ronn Kling KRS, inc. email: r...@rlkling.com Use these books to upgrade your IDL skills. "Application Development with IDL" "Calling C from IDL, Using DLM's to extend your IDL code". SECOND EDITION includes C++ and debugging! THIRD EDITION includes writing IDL object methods in C and C++! "Power Graphics with IDL, A Beginner's Guide to Object Graphics" "IDL primer" A concise introduction to IDL "Navigating the IDL workbench" Working with the new IDL 7.0 http://www.kilvarock.com On Nov 15, 8:13 am, "Haje Korth" <haje.ko...@nospam.jhuapl.edu> wrote: > Ronn, > have you figured out Visual Studio debugging with IDL 7.0? This is the only > fundamental problem I am worried about. > > Haje > > <rlkl...@gmail.com> wrote in message > > news:7bcaa757-f551-4f24-9fc3-e89b115747f4@w34g2000hsg.google groups.com... > > > >> I agree that ITTVIS is definitely looking for future users that don't >> fit into todays demographics. But that isn't necessarily bad. Look at >> the bridge object that came out in 6.3. I am pretty sure that ITTVIS >> needed to create this so that Eclipse could call IDL, but I have been >> using it very effectively in the analysis I do. At the Users Group >> th…
creator: rlkling
date: 2007-11-16T12:53:41-00:00

Re: IDL 7.0 Preview Review
type: item
description: Ronn, Very, very cool thank you for the tip. I just noticed that when you call up the properties in VS, ther is under Configuration Properties->Debugging the option Attach, which lets you attach a process. My intuition tells me that this is what we are looking for. I will play with that over lunch. :) Haje <rlkling@gmail.com> wrote in message news:7fabdcc6-4403-4482-89f0-ed50b7d47dc0@c30g2000hsa.google groups.com... > Hi Haje, > > Yes, it is a little different than before but not too bad. > > Under the Debug property (I am using VS 2005) we no longer have the > idlde.exe, those entries are all blank. Instead the process is. > > 1. Bring up VS. > 2. Bring up IDL7.0 just like you would if you were running an IDL > program. > 3. Go back to VS and go to Debug->Attach to Process. A window will > popup and choose idl_opserver.exe and either double-click it or select > and press the Attach button. > 4. From here on it behaves exactly as before. > > There may be some way to make this a little more direct but I haven't > spent much time working on it. But it does seem that VS ought to have > a way to launch the eclipse process and then automatically attach to > the idl_opserver.exe that gets created. If anyone figures that out > let me know and I will do the same. > > -Ronn Kling > > > KRS, inc. > email: r...@rlkling.com > Use these books to upgrade your IDL skills. > "Application Development with IDL" > "Calling C from IDL, Using DLM's to extend your IDL code". SECOND > EDITION includes C++ and debugging! THIRD EDITION includes writing > IDL > object methods in C and C++! > "Power Graphics with IDL, A Beginner's Guide to Object Graphics" > "IDL primer" A concise introduction to IDL > "Navigating the IDL workbench" Working with the new IDL 7.0 > > > http://www.kilvarock.com > > > > > > > On Nov 15, 8:13 am, "Haje Korth" <haje.ko...@nospam.jhuapl.edu> wrote: >> Ronn, >> have you figured out Visual Studio debugging with IDL 7.0? This is the >> only >> fundamental problem I am …
creator: Haje Korth
date: 2007-11-16T16:03:10-00:00

Re: IDL 7.0 Preview Review
type: item
description: ok, i was being a little overconfident. There is no launch+attach, it is either or. so i decided to set the Command in Configuration Setting-> Debugging to idl_opserver.exe and set the Attach option to Yes. Now I do have to launch IDL manually, but this is less effort than manually attaching the process each time. The debug process is then stopped by Shift+F5 rather then exiting the idlde. Anyway, the tip with the process attachment was great. This was the last remaining issue I had with switching to 7.0. Well, besides the remaining bugs from the Tech Preview, which will now be all fixedd....(yeah right)... I heard 7.1 is planned for spring 08. But with a public roll out of 7.0 we will have some more beta testers. :-) cheers, haje "Haje Korth" <haje.korth@nospam.jhuapl.edu> wrote in message news:fhkevv$bt1$1@aplnetnews.jhuapl.edu... > Ronn, > Very, very cool thank you for the tip. I just noticed that when you call > up the properties in VS, ther is under Configuration Properties->Debugging > the option Attach, which lets you attach a process. My intuition tells me > that this is what we are looking for. I will play with that over lunch. :) > > Haje > > > > <rlkling@gmail.com> wrote in message > news:7fabdcc6-4403-4482-89f0-ed50b7d47dc0@c30g2000hsa.google groups.com... >> Hi Haje, >> >> Yes, it is a little different than before but not too bad. >> >> Under the Debug property (I am using VS 2005) we no longer have the >> idlde.exe, those entries are all blank. Instead the process is. >> >> 1. Bring up VS. >> 2. Bring up IDL7.0 just like you would if you were running an IDL >> program. >> 3. Go back to VS and go to Debug->Attach to Process. A window will >> popup and choose idl_opserver.exe and either double-click it or select >> and press the Attach button. >> 4. From here on it behaves exactly as before. >> >> There may be some way to make this a little more direct but I haven't >> spent much time working on it. But it does seem that VS ought to have >> a way to laun…
creator: Haje Korth
date: 2007-11-16T17:45:58-00:00

Re: IDL 7.0 Preview Review
type: item
description: Haje Korth writes: > Anyway, the tip with the process attachment was great. This was the last > remaining issue I had with switching to 7.0. Well, besides the remaining > bugs from the Tech Preview, which will now be all fixedd....(yeah right)... > I heard 7.1 is planned for spring 08. But with a public roll out of 7.0 we > will have some more beta testers. :-) Gosh, I was worried I might have been leaning toward the cynical side the other day. :-) Cheers, David -- David Fanning, Ph.D. Fanning Software Consulting, Inc. Coyote's Guide to IDL Programming: http://www.dfanning.com/ Sepore ma de ni thui. ("Perhaps thou speakest truth.")
creator: David Fanning
date: 2007-11-16T18:04:42-00:00

Re: IDL 7.0 Preview Review
type: item
description: >> I'm going to have a look at the new IDL Workshop. God knows >> I've tried to learn EMACS for the last 4-5 months and I *still* >> have to look up how to do a Search-and-Replace every time I >> want to do it. My fingers just don't want to learn that dance. >> The IDL Workshop may be just what the doctor ordered. At least >> I hope so. > > Like I said before, I think the learning curve on the Workbench will > be easier on new users. I think debugging is more intuitive and > powerful on the Workbench as well. IDL-Wave probably has more features > as well as leveraging all the native Emacs features. As no doubt the Workbench/IDLWAVE comparisons will soon flood the airwaves, everyone should keep in mind a fundamental difference between the two. One is hooked into IDL at a low level, the other interacts with IDL only as a "user". For instance, to query IDL for the current breakpoints, the Workbench no doubt calls some double-secret function hidden well out of reach above the interpreter stack. IDLWAVE says "IDL> help,/BREAKPOINTS", and dutifully sets about parsing the often mangled results, mindful of the changes in syntax which have slowly percolated through the years. That said, it's still pretty usable for me! JD P.S. Look for IDLWAVE 6.2 soon.
creator: JD Smith
date: 2007-11-16T22:42:53-00:00

Re: IDL 7.0 Preview Review
type: item
description: David, don't get me wrong. I think 7.0 is a great improvement over the previous version. However, it is also a big update and the last tech preview did not quite cut it. There was an awful lot to test and I know only skimmed the surface of the new DE funcitonality. IMHO, It will take a few iteration to iron out the remaining minor bugs. I am curious to see the final product. Haje "David Fanning" <news@dfanning.com> wrote in message news:MPG.21a789a116fb9bb198a0ef@news.frii.com... > Haje Korth writes: > >> Anyway, the tip with the process attachment was great. This was the last >> remaining issue I had with switching to 7.0. Well, besides the remaining >> bugs from the Tech Preview, which will now be all fixedd....(yeah >> right)... >> I heard 7.1 is planned for spring 08. But with a public roll out of 7.0 >> we >> will have some more beta testers. :-) > > Gosh, I was worried I might have been leaning toward > the cynical side the other day. :-) > > Cheers, > > David > -- > David Fanning, Ph.D. > Fanning Software Consulting, Inc. > Coyote's Guide to IDL Programming: http://www.dfanning.com/ > Sepore ma de ni thui. ("Perhaps thou speakest truth.")
creator: Haje Korth
date: 2007-11-19T13:32:55-00:00