comp.lang.idl-pvwave archive - RDF feed
type: channel
description: Messages from Usenet group comp.lang.idl-pvwave, compiled by Paulo Penteado
items: Would you consider this a bug?
items: Re: Would you consider this a bug?

Would you consider this a bug?
type: item
description: After doing a=[3,4,5] a[[2,1,0]] = a a will be set to [3,4,3] One has to write a[[2,1,0]] = a + 0 in order to get the more correct seeming [5,4,3]. Would you think this a bug? -- David Kastrup Phone: +49-234-700-5570 Email: dak@neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de Fax: +49-234-709-4209 Institut fï¿½r Neuroinformatik, Universitï¿½tsstr. 150, 44780 Bochum, Germany
creator: David Kastrup
date: 1998-09-30T07:00:00-00:00

Re: Would you consider this a bug?
type: item
description: Kevin Ivory <Kevin.Ivory@linmpi.mpg.de> writes: > Leaving the bug topic - switching to algorithms > > David Kastrup wrote: >> Unfortunately, translating something like >> >> a[[5,2,3,0,4,1]] = a >> into the equivalent >> a = a[[3,5,1,2,4,0]] >> is not easy to do in the general case. > > Actually it is: you need a second call to sort. See example below. > >> some data that needed to be processed in sorted order, the results >> needed to be rearranged in original order. >> >> Something like >> s = sort(a) >> a = a[s] >> process(a) > ; a[s] = a ; I still think this a dangerous thing to do. > r = sort(s) > a = a[r] First, it is extremely impolite to send a copy of a followup in the newsgroup to the original poster without marking it as such. Now I have to type my reply all over again. Double work. Second, I refuse to call a significantly time-consuming routine like "sort" (O(n log n)) twice without good reason. Especially when a simple workaround like writing a[s] = a+0 will do the trick. -- David Kastrup Phone: +49-234-700-5570 Email: dak@neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de Fax: +49-234-709-4209 Institut fï¿½r Neuroinformatik, Universitï¿½tsstr. 150, 44780 Bochum, Germany
creator: David Kastrup
date: 1998-10-01T07:00:00-00:00

Re: Would you consider this a bug?
type: item
description: In article <m2zpbg4bi7.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>, David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> wrote: > is not easy to do in the general case. In my particular case, I had > some data that needed to be processed in sorted order, the results > needed to be rearranged in original order. > > Something like > s = sort(a) > a = a[s] > process(a) > a[s] = a I believe that using "a[s]=a[*]" will work properly here. Why "a[s]=a" does what it does, I'm not sure. But it kind of makes sense in that a is an array, and a[*] is the elements of the array. So "a[s]=a[*]" is an assignment of array elements, but "a[s]=a" is apparently something else. Eric -- Eric Korpela | An object at rest can never be korpela@ssl.berkeley.edu | stopped. Click for home page.
creator: korpela
date: 1998-10-01T07:00:00-00:00

Re: Would you consider this a bug?
type: item
description: Leaving the bug topic - switching to algorithms David Kastrup wrote: > Unfortunately, translating something like > > a[[5,2,3,0,4,1]] = a > into the equivalent > a = a[[3,5,1,2,4,0]] > is not easy to do in the general case. Actually it is: you need a second call to sort. See example below. > some data that needed to be processed in sorted order, the results > needed to be rearranged in original order. > > Something like > s = sort(a) > a = a[s] > process(a) ; a[s] = a ; I still think this a dangerous thing to do. r = sort(s) a = a[r] Best regards Kevin -- Kevin Ivory Tel: +49 5556 979 434 Max-Planck-Institut fuer Aeronomie Fax: +49 5556 979 240 Max-Planck-Str. 2 mailto:Kevin.Ivory@linmpi.mpg.de D-37191 Katlenburg-Lindau, GERMANY http://www.gwdg.de/~kivory2/
creator: Kevin Ivory
date: 1998-10-01T07:00:00-00:00

Re: Would you consider this a bug?
type: item
description: Kevin Ivory <Kevin.Ivory@linmpi.mpg.de> writes: > David Kastrup wrote: >> a=[3,4,5] >> a[[2,1,0]] = a >> >> a will be set to [3,4,3] >> >> Would you think this a bug? > > I think this is extremely dangerous programming: you might get > undefined or unpredictable results with almost any programming language > in this type of case. Disagree. IDL is WRT to assignment a value oriented language, so one might expect first the right side to be evaluated and then the left side to be assigned (unless IDL can do this more efficiently without affecting the result). If I really wanted a to be destroyed during the operation, I could have written a[[2,1,0]] = temporary(a) > The clean way of doing what you want is to > index the right side of the expression: > a = a[[2,1,0]] Unfortunately, translating something like a[[5,2,3,0,4,1]] = a into the equivalent a = a[[3,5,1,2,4,0]] is not easy to do in the general case. In my particular case, I had some data that needed to be processed in sorted order, the results needed to be rearranged in original order. Something like s = sort(a) a = a[s] process(a) a[s] = a -- David Kastrup Phone: +49-234-700-5570 Email: dak@neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de Fax: +49-234-709-4209 Institut fï¿½r Neuroinformatik, Universitï¿½tsstr. 150, 44780 Bochum, Germany
creator: David Kastrup
date: 1998-10-01T07:00:00-00:00

Re: Would you consider this a bug?
type: item
description: David Kastrup wrote: > a=[3,4,5] > a[[2,1,0]] = a > > a will be set to [3,4,3] > > Would you think this a bug? I think this is extremely dangerous programming: you might get undefined or unpredictable results with almost any programming language in this type of case. The clean way of doing what you want is to index the right side of the expression: a = a[[2,1,0]] I don't think this is a bug. Kevin -- Kevin Ivory Tel: +49 5556 979 434 Max-Planck-Institut fuer Aeronomie Fax: +49 5556 979 240 Max-Planck-Str. 2 mailto:Kevin.Ivory@linmpi.mpg.de D-37191 Katlenburg-Lindau, GERMANY http://www.gwdg.de/~kivory2/
creator: Kevin Ivory
date: 1998-10-01T07:00:00-00:00

Re: Would you consider this a bug?
type: item
description: David Kastrup wrote: > > Kevin Ivory <Kevin.Ivory@linmpi.mpg.de> writes: > >> Leaving the bug topic - switching to algorithms >> >> David Kastrup wrote: >>> Unfortunately, translating something like >>> >>> a[[5,2,3,0,4,1]] = a >>> into the equivalent >>> a = a[[3,5,1,2,4,0]] >>> is not easy to do in the general case. >> >> Actually it is: you need a second call to sort. See example below. >> >>> some data that needed to be processed in sorted order, the results >>> needed to be rearranged in original order. >>> >>> Something like >>> s = sort(a) >>> a = a[s] >>> process(a) >> ; a[s] = a ; I still think this a dangerous thing to do. >> r = sort(s) >> a = a[r] > > [netiquette comment cut] > > Second, I refuse to call a significantly time-consuming routine like > "sort" (O(n log n)) twice without good reason. Especially when a > simple workaround like writing > a[s] = a+0 > will do the trick. > Although I really agree with Kevin in terms of the danger that lies in using some pecularity of IDL (which makes it hard to understand a program, too), I must admit that there is a significant difference in execution speed if you can avoid the second sort command. For a 20000 floating point array ( a=sin(findgen(20000)/360.*!PI) ), I find execution times of 0.01xx vs 0.06xx secs if once compares (in Eric's 'terminology') a[s]=a[*] with a=a[sort(s)]. Well, this is definitively not worth risking anything. BUT if you go to 2M elements, the difference becomes one between 2 secs and 22 secs, which does matter. In any case, as always: a nice comment in the program would help ;-) Regards, Martin. ------------------------------------------------------------ ------- Dr. Martin Schultz Department for Engineering&Applied Sciences, Harvard University 109 Pierce Hall, 29 Oxford St., Cambridge, MA-02138, USA phone: (617)-496-8318 fax : (617)-495-4551 e-mail: mgs@io.harvard.edu Internet-homepage: http://www-as.harvard.edu/people/staff/mgs/ -----------------------------------------------------…
creator: Martin Schultz
date: 1998-10-02T07:00:00-00:00

Re: Would you consider this a bug?
type: item
description: In article <m2ogrw9df6.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>, David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> wrote: > Kevin Ivory <Kevin.Ivory@linmpi.mpg.de> writes: > >> Leaving the bug topic - switching to algorithms >> >> David Kastrup wrote: >>> Unfortunately, translating something like >>> >>> a[[5,2,3,0,4,1]] = a >>> into the equivalent >>> a = a[[3,5,1,2,4,0]] >>> is not easy to do in the general case. >> >> Actually it is: you need a second call to sort. See example below. >> >>> some data that needed to be processed in sorted order, the results >>> needed to be rearranged in original order. >>> >>> Something like >>> s = sort(a) >>> a = a[s] >>> process(a) >> ; a[s] = a ; I still think this a dangerous thing to do. >> r = sort(s) >> a = a[r] > > First, it is extremely impolite to send a copy of a followup in the > newsgroup to the original poster without marking it as such. Now I > have to type my reply all over again. Double work. > > Second, I refuse to call a significantly time-consuming routine like > "sort" (O(n log n)) twice without good reason. Especially when a > simple workaround like writing > a[s] = a+0 > will do the trick. > > -- Actually I don't think it is a bug. One needs to carefully review how IDL handles arrays and indices. If we go back to the original posted question: > a = [3,4,5] > a[[2,1,0]] = a > a will be set to [3,4,3] Which is correct, based on 'a' being overwritten. This is avoid huge memory overhead in many cases where the right side equation is complex. David Kastrup then suggested: > One has to write > a[[2,1,0]] = a + 0 > in order to get the more correct seeming [5,4,3]. Which does work, however this is not necessary to get the desired answer. The following works just fine and follows the access methods shown in a[[2,1,0]] = a[*] the IDL manuals, but not fully explained. In every example in the IDL manuals where left side subscripting is be used, the right hand is subscripted (even if with only the…
creator: muswick
date: 1998-10-03T07:00:00-00:00

Re: Would you consider this a bug?
type: item
description: muswick@uhrad.com writes: > Actually I don't think it is a bug. One needs to carefully review > how IDL handles arrays and indices. An artifact not mentioned in the language description is a bug. Imagining how this bug might come about does not make it go away. > If we go back to the original posted question: > >> a = [3,4,5] >> a[[2,1,0]] = a > >> a will be set to [3,4,3] > > Which is correct, based on 'a' being overwritten. This is avoid huge memory > overhead in many cases where the right side equation is complex. It is a reasonable optimization in general, but an optimization that changes the results of the command is a bug. Being able to understand how this bug comes about does not make it "correct". IDL needs to find out where this optimization is inappropriate and not do it where harm does ensue. You cannot define correctness of a program based on the artifacts of some optimizer. An optimizer has to work behind the scenes. -- David Kastrup Phone: +49-234-700-5570 Email: dak@neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de Fax: +49-234-709-4209 Institut fï¿½r Neuroinformatik, Universitï¿½tsstr. 150, 44780 Bochum, Germany
creator: David Kastrup
date: 1998-10-05T07:00:00-00:00