| Re: Mac Scoop (Addition/Correction) [message #27187] |
Fri, 12 October 2001 08:57  |
![Stein Vidar Hagfors H[1] is currently offline](theme/default/images/xoffline.png.pagespeed.ic.XRkd1fkXye.png "Stein Vidar Hagfors H[1] is currently offline")
Stein Vidar Hagfors H[1]
Messages: 56
Registered: February 2000
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Member |
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"Noam R. Izenberg" <noam.izenberg@jhuapl.edu> writes:
> "Pavel A. Romashkin" wrote:
>
>>
>> ...We know it is all Apple's fault. If
>> they want people to use their computers, they better finance development
>> of software for them. ...
>
> On that front, I have two corrections and one addition:
>
> Correction 1) From earlier, I relayed that RSI sales were down 50% from
> 1999-2000. That was incorrect. _Mac_ sales at RSI have been down 50% each
> year for the past _3_ years.
Oh, well. No *wonder*. They're all waiting for the OS X solution to be up and
running!! Probably a large bunch sitting on the sidelines, or having received
their OS X machines *right now* (Viggo, hang in there ;-). The sounds you
hear of paper hitting the recycling bin are all the purchase orders for Mac OS
X licenses they were in the process of filling out :-)
--
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Stein Vidar Hagfors Haugan
ESA SOHO SOC/European Space Agency Science Operations Coordinator for SOHO
NASA Goddard Space Flight Center, Email: shaugan@esa.nascom.nasa.gov
Mail Code 682.3, Bld. 26, Room G-1, Tel.: 1-301-286-9028/240-354-6066
Greenbelt, Maryland 20771, USA. Fax: 1-301-286-0264
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| Re: Mac Scoop (Addition/Correction) [message #27204 is a reply to message #27187] |
Fri, 12 October 2001 06:15  |
Noam R. Izenberg
Messages: 18
Registered: March 2001
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Junior Member |
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"Joseph B. Gurman" wrote:
> As is usual (among scientists, IDL users, and Mac users), I do have
> a couple of quibbles with his statements in earlier posts, if applied to
> all of us Mac IDL users.
It wouldn't be a proper gathering if opinions did not outnumber attendees.
> We went heavily into G4's in anticipation of the Mac OS X version of
> IDL, and the implicit understanding that it would support Unix-like
> features, such as envrionemnt variables --- which would allow us to run
> a large, ross-platform codebase on this best of all platforms.
>
> Linux would not help us at all;...
Joe,
Let me apologize, then. I am fairly ignorant of the differences between Linux and Unix. I've dabbled
over the last decade in, what, 5 or 6 *ux/*ix systems (and VMS, and a couple others way back). Jack
of several trades (well, maybe a 6), Master of none. Given that I probably mis-spoke because of this
ignorance, I should tell you RSI and Apple were talking Unix yesterday, not Linux, but that's
basically all I know until they finish their evaluation.
> If Apple isn't able to make it worth RSI's while, I suggest forming
> a non-profit consortium to but the existing OS X IDL code, get it
> finished, and do that community Q & A of which RSI appears to be so
> scared. We could even promise to give whatever license fees aren't spent
> on the development and Q & A effort back to RSI --- what have they got
> to lose?
My suggestion- wait out the next week and see what flies. If it unsatisfactory, see if a consortium
of volunteers can be gathered (one that would be willing to sign some kind of contract with RSI to
protect the license), and pitch the case.
Noam
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| Re: Mac Scoop (Addition/Correction) [message #27205 is a reply to message #27204] |
Fri, 12 October 2001 06:03 |
David Fanning
Messages: 11724
Registered: August 2001
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Senior Member |
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Joseph B. Gurman (gurman@crosslink.net) writes:
> Especially since all of us diehard Mac fanatics would never buy
> a Windows machine, even if it meant giving up our firstborn children, PT
> Cruisers, Malibu beach houses, and private islands. Oops, let the cat
> out of the bag --- if the Windows people find out that's how all Mac
> users live, they might want t ojoin the party....
I take back everything I ever said about the Mac
not being a serious machine for science. Clearly
(as my e-mail demonstrates) I was completely wrong
about that. But, while feeling chagrined, I am
also heartened to know that the Mac fans are
every bit as fanatical as they ever were. Long
live Mac zealotry and alternatives to corporate
sameness! :-)
Cheers,
David
--
David W. Fanning, Ph.D.
Fanning Software Consulting
Phone: 970-221-0438, E-mail: david@dfanning.com
Coyote's Guide to IDL Programming: http://www.dfanning.com/
Toll-Free IDL Book Orders: 1-888-461-0155
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| Re: Mac Scoop (Addition/Correction) [message #27207 is a reply to message #27205] |
Fri, 12 October 2001 05:50 |
Joseph B. Gurman
Messages: 31
Registered: April 2000
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Member |
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In article <3BC6CC3F.185F0B29@jhuapl.edu>, "Noam R. Izenberg"
<noam.izenberg@jhuapl.edu> wrote:
[snip]
>
> On that front, I have two corrections and one addition:
>
> Correction 1) From earlier, I relayed that RSI sales were down 50% from
> 1999-2000. That was
> incorrect. _Mac_ sales at RSI have been down 50% each year for the past
> _3_ years.
>
> Correction 2) I relayed Apple gave RSI a G4 to help their Mac effort.
> That was incorrect. Apple gave
> several machines and good general hardware support. RSI, however
> needed/needs other types of support
> as well - critical things like documentation help, engineering resource
> support, etc.
>
> My additional news is on that front. RSI and Apple have been
> communicating (yesterday) with positive
> results that are now being evaluated by RSI. Look for an announcement
> maybe late next week.
>
> A new statement from Mike Scally (CEO) should be on the web sometime
> today addressing allot of this.
>
> Noam
>
I look forward to that statement. I would also like to thank Noam
for talking to the RSI management on behalf not only of himself, but the
Mac OS IDL community.
As is usual (among scientists, IDL users, and Mac users), I do have
a couple of quibbles with his statements in earlier posts, if applied to
all of us Mac IDL users.
We went heavily into G4's in anticipation of the Mac OS X version of
IDL, and the implicit understanding that it would support Unix-like
features, such as envrionemnt variables --- which would allow us to run
a large, ross-platform codebase on this best of all platforms.
Linux would not help us at all; we are at a very security-conscious
institution, and the sheer number of CERT advisories per week on Linux
variants makes it clear that serious sys admin overhead is necessary ---
it may be for OS X as well, but so far we've cleared the first sets of
scans and probes. More to the point, there are other Mac apps we need,
and the simple desk space and cost of having one machine to do serious
computing and one for all the "standard" apps that still don't exist for
Linux (sorry, Gimp fans) is no longer justifiable.
If Apple isn't able to make it worth RSI's while, I suggest forming
a non-profit consortium to but the existing OS X IDL code, get it
finished, and do that community Q & A of which RSI appears to be so
scared. We could even promise to give whatever license fees aren't spent
on the development and Q & A effort back to RSI --- what have they got
to lose? Especially since all of us diehard Mac fanatics would never buy
a Windows machine, even if it meant giving up our firstborn children, PT
Cruisers, Malibu beach houses, and private islands. Oops, let the cat
out of the bag --- if the Windows people find out that's how all Mac
users live, they might want t ojoin the party....
Thanks again,
Joe Gurman
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| Re: Mac Scoop (Addition/Correction) [message #27269 is a reply to message #27205] |
Sat, 13 October 2001 01:12 |
Dr. G. Scott Lett
Messages: 14
Registered: February 1998
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Junior Member |
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David and everone,
Like you, I thought the Mac was nearly unused for scientific computing.
When I switched industries, moving into the biosciences, I found out I
was completely wrong. The Mac is very popular in biomedical engineering,
pharmaceutical and biotechs, and in academic departments. Many of the
people I know in this industry were largely unaware of IDL. When I show
them what IDL can do, they're very interested...especially so because of
IDL's support for the Mac. I was starting to visualize real growth
opportunities for IDL-based tools in this industry when...
I only caught up with the Mac story recently when exchanging email with
a friend (another ex-RSI employee...how many of us are there?). I was
struck with the differences between the way RSI handled this and the way
RSI _used_ to handle these things. Noam Izenberg's post on this topic
was excellent and almost definitive. My question is on a different topic.
It seems many of us have ignored a scientific computing market with real
needs. How could this have happened? How could all this business
opportunity go so quietly unnoticed? Who should have done better?
Apple? Those of us who market products & services to the scientific
community?
I'm interested in reading some opinions on this topic.
David Fanning wrote:
> Joseph B. Gurman (gurman@crosslink.net) writes:
>
>
>> Especially since all of us diehard Mac fanatics would never buy
>> a Windows machine, even if it meant giving up our firstborn children, PT
>> Cruisers, Malibu beach houses, and private islands. Oops, let the cat
>> out of the bag --- if the Windows people find out that's how all Mac
>> users live, they might want t ojoin the party....
>>
>
> I take back everything I ever said about the Mac
> not being a serious machine for science. Clearly
> (as my e-mail demonstrates) I was completely wrong
> about that. But, while feeling chagrined, I am
> also heartened to know that the Mac fans are
> every bit as fanatical as they ever were. Long
> live Mac zealotry and alternatives to corporate
> sameness! :-)
>
> Cheers,
>
> David
>
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