| Apple X11 Beta 0.3 [message #34470] |
Thu, 20 March 2003 07:50  |
Karl Schultz
Messages: 341
Registered: October 1999
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Senior Member |
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Apple recently released their new beta for X11.
Several IDL users have posted messages to the Apple X11 mailing list
reporting some problems with image displays, probably in Direct Graphics.
So, it may be wise to NOT install the 0.3 beta version. IDL users seem to
be better off with 0.21. I'll be installing and testing 0.3 so I can
officially report the problems to Apple.
0.3 is reported to fix a pretty obscure problem with TVRD that I don't think
was reported by any IDL users outside of RSI.
0.3 also introduces 8-bit PseudoColor visual support, which I suspect is
related to the problems that have been reported.
The IDLDE - Object Graphics problem will probably not be fixed by Apple in
the near future. Apple's implementation of the fork() system call is
different from that on other Unix systems and that is what is causing the
difficulty with forking the IDLDE process and using GL for Object Graphics.
For IDL 5.6, please continue to use the workarounds discussed in the
newsgroup and in the tech tip on the RSI web site.
Thanks,
Karl
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| Re: Apple X11 Beta 0.3 [message #34641 is a reply to message #34470] |
Wed, 09 April 2003 07:02  |
karl_schultz
Messages: 13
Registered: August 2001
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Junior Member |
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"M. Katz" <MKatz843@onebox.com> wrote in message
news:4a097d6a.0304081243.70f54fae@posting.google.com...
>> I can't completely explain why 0.3 is working in your case. I'm
>> assuming that you've removed any IDL configuration settings that may
>> have forced software rendering in Object Graphics. Some of the
>> discussion below may hint at some answers.
>
> I now have IDL and X11.app beta 0.3 installed on 3 different Macs, all
> running flawlessly for my applications.
>
> I use direct graphics interactively with windows created from the
> command line, and I can use tvrd() with no problems. I believe I have
> used /true to get 24-bit color from tvrd.
Probably because your windows are 24-bit. I tried to point out that the
problem was with using/mixing 8-bit windows.
> I also use object graphics from within widget_draw windows. I haven't
> had any problems whatsoever.
Object Graphics is less likely to have the problem because it is a lot
harder to get OG to use an 8-bit visual when there are 24-bit ones
available.
>
> In case it helps, here's the contents of two files in my ~ directory.
>
> This is the first four lines of my .Xdefaults file
>
> idl.gr_visual: TrueColor
> idl.gr_depth: 24
> idl.retain: 1
> idl.renderer: 1
This last line will keep you from using OpenGL hardware acceleration on your
system.
>
>
> My .xinitrc looks like this
>
> xterm -sb -bg snow -rw -sl 500 -geometry 80x40+5+190 &
> exec /usr/X11R6/bin/quartz-wm
>
>
> For object graphics in widget_draw, I issue commands like this:
>
> windowID = widget_draw(base, GRAPHICS_LEVEL=2, RETAIN=2,
> UVALUE='window')
>
> I think I started setting RETAIN=2 for compatability with a Linux
> system that I also use. On that system, if RETAIN isn't set properly,
> then the windows go black when they're hidden.
Probably because the X servers have differing backing store capabilities.
If you are adventurous, you might try playing with your XFree86 config files
to see if you can get backing store set up in such a way that RETAIN=2 is
not needed.
>
> I hope your problems get resolved. If you'd like me to test a certain
> procedure that reliably crashes your IDL session, send along some
> instrcutions and I'll give it a go.
Try running demo_tour (without any IDL Xdefaults settings).
Or, do something that uses a Direct Graphics 8-bit visual.
I think that the problems only occur when you start using the 8-bit
PseudoColor X visual. Demo_tour does this. From what you are saying, it
looks like you are happening to avoid that, and that's why you are running
OK.
Using RETAIN=2 causes IDL to use X quite a bit differently, and that may be
enough to avoid the bug.
There's also the possibility that your graphics card may be such that you
are avoiding the buggy path in the server, but I think that is less likely.
Karl
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| Re: Apple X11 Beta 0.3 [message #34654 is a reply to message #34470] |
Tue, 08 April 2003 13:43 |
MKatz843
Messages: 98
Registered: March 2002
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Member |
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> I can't completely explain why 0.3 is working in your case. I'm
> assuming that you've removed any IDL configuration settings that may
> have forced software rendering in Object Graphics. Some of the
> discussion below may hint at some answers.
I now have IDL and X11.app beta 0.3 installed on 3 different Macs, all
running flawlessly for my applications.
I use direct graphics interactively with windows created from the
command line, and I can use tvrd() with no problems. I believe I have
used /true to get 24-bit color from tvrd.
I also use object graphics from within widget_draw windows. I haven't
had any problems whatsoever.
In case it helps, here's the contents of two files in my ~ directory.
This is the first four lines of my .Xdefaults file
idl.gr_visual: TrueColor
idl.gr_depth: 24
idl.retain: 1
idl.renderer: 1
My .xinitrc looks like this
xterm -sb -bg snow -rw -sl 500 -geometry 80x40+5+190 &
exec /usr/X11R6/bin/quartz-wm
For object graphics in widget_draw, I issue commands like this:
windowID = widget_draw(base, GRAPHICS_LEVEL=2, RETAIN=2,
UVALUE='window')
I think I started setting RETAIN=2 for compatability with a Linux
system that I also use. On that system, if RETAIN isn't set properly,
then the windows go black when they're hidden.
I hope your problems get resolved. If you'd like me to test a certain
procedure that reliably crashes your IDL session, send along some
instrcutions and I'll give it a go.
M. Katz
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| Re: Apple X11 Beta 0.3 [message #34669 is a reply to message #34559] |
Tue, 08 April 2003 07:30 |
karl_schultz
Messages: 13
Registered: August 2001
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Junior Member |
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MKatz843@onebox.com (M. Katz) wrote in message news:<4a097d6a.0303241202.55244ec6@posting.google.com>...
> I installed the X11 beta 0.3 on my home Mac.
> I run OS X 10.2.4 on a 1.5 year old G4/867 desktop machine.
> The previous X11 had been working extremely well for me.
>
> Since last week, I've used the beta 0.3 with IDL for about 15-20 hours
> now and I haven't had any problems at all. I opted to keep all of my
> "configuration" files the same. (i.e. I didn't let the installer
> overwrite my config files.) Occasionally the 0.2x version
> would silently quit on me--poof--when it was in the background.
> So far, that has not happened once with 0.3.
>
> I run graphic-instesive applications with both direct graphics
> and object graphics windows.
>
> There's only one peculiarity I've found, and it's been around since
> the first version of X11. If I have two graphics-only windows open,
> and I try to move one of them with a click-and-drag, sometimes
> the computer loses track of where I clicked. The mouse cursor ends up
> one one side of the screen and the window on the other. They sill
> move together, but far apart. Has anyone else seen this? It seems
> to only happen WHILE a process is running. Not when everything is stopped.
>
> M. Katz
I can't completely explain why 0.3 is working in your case. I'm
assuming that you've removed any IDL configuration settings that may
have forced software rendering in Object Graphics. Some of the
discussion below may hint at some answers.
I did hear back from Apple about the problems that people are having
with 0.3. Apple added 8-bit PseudoColor visual support in 0.3. This
means that an X client can create windows that have either 8 or 24 bit
depths. This gets really interesting when clients start creating
windows of mixed depths in the same window heirarchy. Windows inherit
attributes from their parent window and the mixed depths can cause all
sorts of problems. Although many Unix workstation vendors have
supported this for awhile now, Apple needs to work out some of the
problems on their platform. There's more to it than just enabling the
basic drawing code.
Some IDL apps will specifically ask for 8-bit windows, and these are
the IDL apps that are most likely to have problems. The
demo/demo_tour is one example. On 24-bit only X servers, the
demo_tour would throw a message about not being able to get the 8-bit
visual, but then keep going anyway. On the 0.3 beta, the message does
not appear, but the crash occurs when the mixed depths are actually
used.
I'm guessing that you may not see a crash if your Direct Graphics
program stays with the default window visual type, or if your app uses
only Object Graphics.
Apple is working on the problem, but no word yet on when a fix will be
available.
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