| Re: Graphics problem on Sun Ultra2 workstation [message #35851] |
Thu, 31 July 2003 10:39  |
Karl Schultz
Messages: 341
Registered: October 1999
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Senior Member |
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"Timm Weitkamp" <timm.weitkamp@nowhere.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.44.0307311024590.3502-100000@localhost.local domain...
> Alex and Jim,
>
> I have little knowledge about the hardware internals of computer graphics,
> but I have seen the phenomenon described by Alex lots of times on
> different kinds workstations (HP, Sun...). It occurs not only with IDL.
>
> I am pretty sure that this is simply the way that their 8-bit visuals deal
> with any application's attempt to allocate a larger number of colors than
> is left free by the other applications (including the window manager).
> In this case, the application gets a "private colormap", and every time
> the focus is put in the application's window, the entire screen switches
> to this colormap, inevitably messing up the rest of the screen. In other
> words: it's a feature, not a bug.
Agreed. This was just the way X chose to deal with the color allocation
problem. Windows, by contrast, does dynamic palette remapping and also
reserves some desktop colors so that the vital parts of the desktop like the
window frames stay the same color.
> I'd be surprised if it had anything to do with the refreshing rate.
Agreed.
> Alex, your Sun probably has Netscape installed, right? Try start it by
> typing "netscape -install". This forces Netscape to install a private
> colormap, and the Netscape window should then exhibit the same behavior as
> the IDL graphics window. The advantage is of course that Netscape or IDL
> can use the full 8-bit range of colors for themselves if they install a
> private colormap.
This keeps Netscape from using up colors in the screen's default colormap,
which will delay exhausting the free colors in this shared colormap. The
downside is that when Netscape gets colormap focus, Netscape's colormap will
get installed (loaded into the hardware's color table) and the other
clients' colors will be false. Not a big problem, as long as you are aware
of it.
> A particularly smart program in this respect is Xfig,
> which switches to a private colormap during runtime as soon as the user
> wants to use colors that are not available in the public colormap.
IDL's capabilities in this area are explained in the IDL documentation for
the X device. The docs also explain the shared and private colormap issues
pretty well. In general, IDL's WINDOW command gives the user a bit of
control over how colors are allocated. Specifically, if you try to create a
window with a lot of colors (COLORS keyword), IDL will use a private
colormap if the colors cannot be allocated from the shared colormap.
> Can it be helped? I don't know. I used to live with it. Also, it usually
> didn't occur if I avoided having other color-intensive applications
> running when starting IDL.
One other culprit is the desktop itself. If you are running CDE, try
adjusting the color usage settings in the desktop preferences. You can take
it all the way down to just black and white, if you want. Sometimes,
reducing the colors on the desktop can make a huge difference.
Some of our Sun machines have a client called xcmap that displays 256-color
PseudoColor colormap usage. It can help you see how many colors are being
used. It is sort of fun to watch as you run clients that fool around with
colors a lot.
Karl
>
> Timm
>
>
> Timm Weitkamp <http://people.web.psi.ch/weitkamp>
>
>
> On 30.07.03 at 15:04 -0700, Jim Brauher wrote:
>
>> Alex,
>>
>> I've seen this problem before. You might want to examine your
>> visual depth, resolution, and cycle rate. Try the following:
>>
>> % xdpyinfo
>>
>> which will give you a list of the various visuals available on your
>> machine as well as the current one. I also assume you want to use 24
>> bit color depth.
>>
>> Now try the m64config command under Solaris, but first read the
>> manpage because this is a tricky command. The color flash is likely
>> due to the number of cycles that your monitor is refreshing at. Look
>> for a higher one (75 or 76 cycles).
>>
>> After that, use the m64config to change your color depth and
>> resolution.
>>
>> % m64config -depth 24
>> % m64config -res 1280x1024x76 (or some resolution that is available to
>> you)
>>
>> Now log out of your X session and log back in. Note that this may
>> affect some of your other applications if you were running in 8-bit
>> Pseudocolor mode before.
>>
>> Hope this helps.
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
>> Wonko@wonkology.org (Alex Schuster) wrote in message
news:<8qsf3D1Pd8B@wonkology.org>...
>>> Hi there!
>>>
>>> I've been away from this group for some time.. too many thing to do,
>>> too less time.
>>>
>>> I am having trouble with our two new (well, some years ago they were
>>> new) SUN Ultra2 workstations and IDL (5.2). Whan I start IDL, and
>>> enter the WINDOW command, a white window appears. If I move the mouse
>>> cursor into the window, I get the correct black color, but my desktop
>>> colors switch, too.
>>>
>>> I know this from other SUNs, but it never was a real problem, as
>>> switching to pseudo color mode (DEVICE, PSEUDO=8) or setting DEVICE,
>>> DECOMPOSED=0 solved it.
>>>
>>> This does not work with the new SUNs. All I can do is a device,
>>> true_color, this prevents the color flickering. But I have tons of
>>> programs using pseudo color mode that I don't want to change to true-
>>> color mode.
>>>
>>> Any ideas? I'm sorry that I don't know much about the graphics card,
>>> only that it's a Creator model, that's what the logo on the front
>>> panel says. We have other SUNs (Ultra-1), with Creator 3d cards, and
>>> they work well. I don't think there is an easy solution, but I thought
>>> I'd give the group here a try.
>>>
>>> TIA,
>>>
>>> Alex
>>
>
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| Re: Graphics problem on Sun Ultra2 workstation [message #35855 is a reply to message #35851] |
Thu, 31 July 2003 01:34  |
Timm Weitkamp
Messages: 66
Registered: August 2002
|
Member |
|
|
Alex and Jim,
I have little knowledge about the hardware internals of computer graphics,
but I have seen the phenomenon described by Alex lots of times on
different kinds workstations (HP, Sun...). It occurs not only with IDL.
I am pretty sure that this is simply the way that their 8-bit visuals deal
with any application's attempt to allocate a larger number of colors than
is left free by the other applications (including the window manager).
In this case, the application gets a "private colormap", and every time
the focus is put in the application's window, the entire screen switches
to this colormap, inevitably messing up the rest of the screen. In other
words: it's a feature, not a bug.
I'd be surprised if it had anything to do with the refreshing rate.
Alex, your Sun probably has Netscape installed, right? Try start it by
typing "netscape -install". This forces Netscape to install a private
colormap, and the Netscape window should then exhibit the same behavior as
the IDL graphics window. The advantage is of course that Netscape or IDL
can use the full 8-bit range of colors for themselves if they install a
private colormap. A particularly smart program in this respect is Xfig,
which switches to a private colormap during runtime as soon as the user
wants to use colors that are not available in the public colormap.
Can it be helped? I don't know. I used to live with it. Also, it usually
didn't occur if I avoided having other color-intensive applications
running when starting IDL.
Timm
Timm Weitkamp <http://people.web.psi.ch/weitkamp>
On 30.07.03 at 15:04 -0700, Jim Brauher wrote:
> Alex,
>
> I've seen this problem before. You might want to examine your
> visual depth, resolution, and cycle rate. Try the following:
>
> % xdpyinfo
>
> which will give you a list of the various visuals available on your
> machine as well as the current one. I also assume you want to use 24
> bit color depth.
>
> Now try the m64config command under Solaris, but first read the
> manpage because this is a tricky command. The color flash is likely
> due to the number of cycles that your monitor is refreshing at. Look
> for a higher one (75 or 76 cycles).
>
> After that, use the m64config to change your color depth and
> resolution.
>
> % m64config -depth 24
> % m64config -res 1280x1024x76 (or some resolution that is available to
> you)
>
> Now log out of your X session and log back in. Note that this may
> affect some of your other applications if you were running in 8-bit
> Pseudocolor mode before.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Jim
>
>
> Wonko@wonkology.org (Alex Schuster) wrote in message news:<8qsf3D1Pd8B@wonkology.org>...
>> Hi there!
>>
>> I've been away from this group for some time.. too many thing to do,
>> too less time.
>>
>> I am having trouble with our two new (well, some years ago they were
>> new) SUN Ultra2 workstations and IDL (5.2). Whan I start IDL, and
>> enter the WINDOW command, a white window appears. If I move the mouse
>> cursor into the window, I get the correct black color, but my desktop
>> colors switch, too.
>>
>> I know this from other SUNs, but it never was a real problem, as
>> switching to pseudo color mode (DEVICE, PSEUDO=8) or setting DEVICE,
>> DECOMPOSED=0 solved it.
>>
>> This does not work with the new SUNs. All I can do is a device,
>> true_color, this prevents the color flickering. But I have tons of
>> programs using pseudo color mode that I don't want to change to true-
>> color mode.
>>
>> Any ideas? I'm sorry that I don't know much about the graphics card,
>> only that it's a Creator model, that's what the logo on the front
>> panel says. We have other SUNs (Ultra-1), with Creator 3d cards, and
>> they work well. I don't think there is an easy solution, but I thought
>> I'd give the group here a try.
>>
>> TIA,
>>
>> Alex
>
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| Re: Graphics problem on Sun Ultra2 workstation [message #35863 is a reply to message #35855] |
Wed, 30 July 2003 15:04 |
jimby
Messages: 4
Registered: August 2002
|
Junior Member |
|
|
Alex,
I've seen this problem before. You might want to examine your
visual depth, resolution, and cycle rate. Try the following:
% xdpyinfo
which will give you a list of the various visuals available on your
machine as well as the current one. I also assume you want to use 24
bit color depth.
Now try the m64config command under Solaris, but first read the
manpage because this is a tricky command. The color flash is likely
due to the number of cycles that your monitor is refreshing at. Look
for a higher one (75 or 76 cycles).
After that, use the m64config to change your color depth and
resolution.
% m64config -depth 24
% m64config -res 1280x1024x76 (or some resolution that is available to
you)
Now log out of your X session and log back in. Note that this may
affect some of your other applications if you were running in 8-bit
Pseudocolor mode before.
Hope this helps.
Jim
Wonko@wonkology.org (Alex Schuster) wrote in message news:<8qsf3D1Pd8B@wonkology.org>...
> Hi there!
>
> I've been away from this group for some time.. too many thing to do,
> too less time.
>
> I am having trouble with our two new (well, some years ago they were
> new) SUN Ultra2 workstations and IDL (5.2). Whan I start IDL, and
> enter the WINDOW command, a white window appears. If I move the mouse
> cursor into the window, I get the correct black color, but my desktop
> colors switch, too.
>
> I know this from other SUNs, but it never was a real problem, as
> switching to pseudo color mode (DEVICE, PSEUDO=8) or setting DEVICE,
> DECOMPOSED=0 solved it.
>
> This does not work with the new SUNs. All I can do is a device,
> true_color, this prevents the color flickering. But I have tons of
> programs using pseudo color mode that I don't want to change to true-
> color mode.
>
> Any ideas? I'm sorry that I don't know much about the graphics card,
> only that it's a Creator model, that's what the logo on the front
> panel says. We have other SUNs (Ultra-1), with Creator 3d cards, and
> they work well. I don't think there is an easy solution, but I thought
> I'd give the group here a try.
>
> TIA,
>
> Alex
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| Re: Graphics problem on Sun Ultra2 workstation [message #36169 is a reply to message #35855] |
Thu, 14 August 2003 07:05 |
Wonko[3]
Messages: 9
Registered: February 2003
|
Junior Member |
|
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timm.weitkamp@nowhere.edu (Timm Weitkamp) writes:
> Alex and Jim,
> I have little knowledge about the hardware internals of computer
> graphics, but I have seen the phenomenon described by Alex lots of times
> on different kinds workstations (HP, Sun...). It occurs not only with
> IDL.
> I am pretty sure that this is simply the way that their 8-bit visuals
> deal with any application's attempt to allocate a larger number of colors
> than is left free by the other applications (including the window
> manager). In this case, the application gets a "private colormap", and
> every time the focus is put in the application's window, the entire
> screen switches to this colormap, inevitably messing up the rest of the
> screen. In other words: it's a feature, not a bug.
> I'd be surprised if it had anything to do with the refreshing rate.
> Alex, your Sun probably has Netscape installed, right? Try start it by
Sort of, but the times whan I used SUNs to view Web sites are over, I
prefer PCs for that now. Netscape is painfully slow, and crashes way
too often. Mozilla is okay, but even slower.
I used to do the -install trick with Netscape some years ago, but my
problem happens without any color-using applications. There is just
OpenWindows running. I also tried CDE, even in black-white mode, but
this dows not change the color flashing problem.
When I start Netscape, I can see true-color images. Using xcolor to
display the colormap, I see no change here. I can also open another
applicaton, using ~200 colors, without color flickering. But I can see
the color map changing then.
There are a couple of SUNs here I am working with. Sparc5 machines,
sparc10, and some Ultras. But only this Ultra-2 machines gives the
problems. With all other machines I can prevent the flickering (if it
happens at all) by doing a DEVICE, PSEUDO=8 or DEVICE, DECOMPOSED=0
before opening any graphics window.
But looking at the output of xdpyinfo, I just noted that the default
visual ID is 0x20, and this means PseudoColor. Although there are a
couple of TrueColor visuals. But this may be normal, I see a similar
output on another Sun.
Oh, well. This is our biggest Sun, but I don't use it, because IDL
(unless in read TrueColor mode) is no fun here.
Alex
--
Alex Schuster Wonko@wonkology.org PGP Key available
alex@pet.mpin-koeln.mpg.de
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