| Re: X11 macOSX woes [message #39572] |
Fri, 28 May 2004 07:58 |
btt
Messages: 345
Registered: December 2000
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Senior Member |
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Karl Schultz wrote:
> "Ben Tupper" <btupper@bigelow.org> wrote in message
> news:2hourhFf7c8lU1@uni-berlin.de...
>
>> Karl:
>>
>
> snip
>
>>> One thing I just thought of that might be worth doing is to try using
>>> another window manager. A window manager is just another client, but I
>
> have
>
>>> to believe that the default window manager is "wired into" the system
>
> quite
>
>>> a bit more tightly. Another simpler wm like twm might be worth trying.
>
> I
>
>>> haven't tried switching the window manager (yet), but I would think that
>>> there are some pretty simple instructions on the net someplace.
>>>
>>
>> I can try this approach, but we are using IDLVM pretty heavily and this
>> may feel cumbersome for some of our already vexed Mac users.
>>
>> Is vtwm the same as twm?
>>
>
> I don't know for sure, but the point is to just try something different from
> the default. I know it is rotten to do this to users, but right now, we're
> just looking for something that works. I've seen postings in mailing lists
> and newsgroups about people using all sorts of wm's, including some that you
> see in Linux distros, so it isn't all that unusual. Apple has taken on
> quite a chore in not only adding an X11 server to OS X, but also with
> integrating it into their GUI world. Like vendors before them, there may be
> a few things to sort out.
>
> Anyway, the wm switch is pretty much of a longshot. I'll be trying it
> myself in a few days to look into the iconify problem. But right now, it is
> just something I am suggesting to try to see what happens.
Thanks Karl. Point well taken.
Ben
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| Re: X11 macOSX woes [message #39573 is a reply to message #39572] |
Fri, 28 May 2004 07:52  |
Karl Schultz
Messages: 341
Registered: October 1999
|
Senior Member |
|
|
"Ben Tupper" <btupper@bigelow.org> wrote in message
news:2hourhFf7c8lU1@uni-berlin.de...
> Karl:
>
snip
>> One thing I just thought of that might be worth doing is to try using
>> another window manager. A window manager is just another client, but I
have
>> to believe that the default window manager is "wired into" the system
quite
>> a bit more tightly. Another simpler wm like twm might be worth trying.
I
>> haven't tried switching the window manager (yet), but I would think that
>> there are some pretty simple instructions on the net someplace.
>>
>
> I can try this approach, but we are using IDLVM pretty heavily and this
> may feel cumbersome for some of our already vexed Mac users.
>
> Is vtwm the same as twm?
>
I don't know for sure, but the point is to just try something different from
the default. I know it is rotten to do this to users, but right now, we're
just looking for something that works. I've seen postings in mailing lists
and newsgroups about people using all sorts of wm's, including some that you
see in Linux distros, so it isn't all that unusual. Apple has taken on
quite a chore in not only adding an X11 server to OS X, but also with
integrating it into their GUI world. Like vendors before them, there may be
a few things to sort out.
Anyway, the wm switch is pretty much of a longshot. I'll be trying it
myself in a few days to look into the iconify problem. But right now, it is
just something I am suggesting to try to see what happens.
Karl
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| Re: X11 macOSX woes [message #39575 is a reply to message #39573] |
Fri, 28 May 2004 06:58 |
btt
Messages: 345
Registered: December 2000
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Thanks All,
Ken:
> It hasn't happened enough to see any patterns. Have you looked in
> /cores to see if it left a core dump? Apple might be interested.
>
There doesn't seem to be anything (zip, zilch, zero, nada) in /cores,
but I was glad to know where to look.
M Katz:
> Might you be trying to plot or draw into this window after it has been
> closed? You didn't say what kind of an X11 window it is. I imagine
> with window with your IDL session is open, or else how could you read
> the error message?
Actually, my command line is the "Terminal" application that you find in
/Applications/Utilities. As long as X11 is up-and-running you can use
the Terminal app which is much better for cur/paste/scroll etc. In this
case, X11 can quit while Terminal continues running.
I'm not trying to draw to unrealized windows or anything fancy - and I
am using some of the same DG graphics I have been using for years (gad!,
Have I been around that long?)
Karl:
>>>
>>> { ppc darwin unix Mac OS X 6.0.3 Feb 26 2004 32 32}
>>
>> We've *recently* seen this sort of problem here at RSI as well, but it
>> involves iconifying or de-iconifying windows. For example, if you create
>
> an
>
>> IDLgrWindow, iconify it, and then destroy it, the X server will sometimes
>> hang or crash. It seems that if you iconify or de-iconify the window and
>> then destroy it very soon after that, the problem occurs more frequently
>>
>> Your problem and the other discussions in the thread aren't exactly this
>> same as this, but there was enough similarity to mention it.
>>
>> I'm planning on filing a problem report with Apple. An X client shouldn't
>> be able to make the X server crash, no matter what the client does.
>>
>
>
> One thing I just thought of that might be worth doing is to try using
> another window manager. A window manager is just another client, but I have
> to believe that the default window manager is "wired into" the system quite
> a bit more tightly. Another simpler wm like twm might be worth trying. I
> haven't tried switching the window manager (yet), but I would think that
> there are some pretty simple instructions on the net someplace.
>
I can try this approach, but we are using IDLVM pretty heavily and this
may feel cumbersome for some of our already vexed Mac users.
Is vtwm the same as twm?
Thanks for the feedback.
Ben
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| Re: X11 macOSX woes [message #39581 is a reply to message #39575] |
Thu, 27 May 2004 13:40 |
Karl Schultz
Messages: 341
Registered: October 1999
|
Senior Member |
|
|
"Karl Schultz" <kschultz_no_spam@rsinc.com> wrote in message
news:10bcgrvjms5l38a@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "Ben Tupper" <btupper@bigelow.org> wrote in message
> news:2hkbu8Fd6o4jU1@uni-berlin.de...
>> Hello All,
>>
>> I have been bumping into a real pain in the neck. It is a recent
>> occurance, but I can't pinpoint a cause/effect sequence of events.
>>
>>
>> The trouble is that *sometimes*, when the *last* open X11 window is
>> closed, X11 crashes and IDL outputs...
>>
>> IDL> X connection to :0.0 broken (explicit kill or server shutdown).
>>
>> before IDL quits. Closing the window can be a manual close (click on
>> the button) or a programmatic one (WDELETE).
>>
>>
>> Has anyone bumped into this problem, too? How would I chase down where
>> the problem lies.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Ben
>>
>>
>> { ppc darwin unix Mac OS X 6.0.3 Feb 26 2004 32 32}
>
> We've *recently* seen this sort of problem here at RSI as well, but it
> involves iconifying or de-iconifying windows. For example, if you create
an
> IDLgrWindow, iconify it, and then destroy it, the X server will sometimes
> hang or crash. It seems that if you iconify or de-iconify the window and
> then destroy it very soon after that, the problem occurs more frequently
>
> Your problem and the other discussions in the thread aren't exactly this
> same as this, but there was enough similarity to mention it.
>
> I'm planning on filing a problem report with Apple. An X client shouldn't
> be able to make the X server crash, no matter what the client does.
>
One thing I just thought of that might be worth doing is to try using
another window manager. A window manager is just another client, but I have
to believe that the default window manager is "wired into" the system quite
a bit more tightly. Another simpler wm like twm might be worth trying. I
haven't tried switching the window manager (yet), but I would think that
there are some pretty simple instructions on the net someplace.
Trying another wm is just a temporary experiment, to see if the default wm
is part of the problem. If the change helps, it could be a workaround until
the server is fixed, if there is a server problem. I'm thinking that the
default window manager is so tightly integrated with the desktop that some
complication is causing the problem. A simpler, less integrated wm may not
have these complications. Just a guess.
Karl
Karl
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| Re: X11 macOSX woes [message #39582 is a reply to message #39581] |
Thu, 27 May 2004 12:37 |
Karl Schultz
Messages: 341
Registered: October 1999
|
Senior Member |
|
|
"Ben Tupper" <btupper@bigelow.org> wrote in message
news:2hkbu8Fd6o4jU1@uni-berlin.de...
> Hello All,
>
> I have been bumping into a real pain in the neck. It is a recent
> occurance, but I can't pinpoint a cause/effect sequence of events.
>
>
> The trouble is that *sometimes*, when the *last* open X11 window is
> closed, X11 crashes and IDL outputs...
>
> IDL> X connection to :0.0 broken (explicit kill or server shutdown).
>
> before IDL quits. Closing the window can be a manual close (click on
> the button) or a programmatic one (WDELETE).
>
>
> Has anyone bumped into this problem, too? How would I chase down where
> the problem lies.
>
> Thanks,
> Ben
>
>
> { ppc darwin unix Mac OS X 6.0.3 Feb 26 2004 32 32}
We've *recently* seen this sort of problem here at RSI as well, but it
involves iconifying or de-iconifying windows. For example, if you create an
IDLgrWindow, iconify it, and then destroy it, the X server will sometimes
hang or crash. It seems that if you iconify or de-iconify the window and
then destroy it very soon after that, the problem occurs more frequently
Your problem and the other discussions in the thread aren't exactly this
same as this, but there was enough similarity to mention it.
I'm planning on filing a problem report with Apple. An X client shouldn't
be able to make the X server crash, no matter what the client does.
Karl
|
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| Re: X11 macOSX woes [message #39583 is a reply to message #39582] |
Thu, 27 May 2004 11:59 |
MKatz843
Messages: 98
Registered: March 2002
|
Member |
|
|
Might you be trying to plot or draw into this window after it has been
closed? You didn't say what kind of an X11 window it is. I imagine
with window with your IDL session is open, or else how could you read
the error message?
It's a pain, but you could put an explicit line in the code to check
if the window is valid before drawing to it. For direct-graphics
windows, I made the function below, window_valid(). For object
graphics, you could test the IDLgrWindow object. For widget programs,
there are two things you can do. First, test if the widget ID is still
valid with widget_info(ID, /VALID_ID); also add a cleanup routine so
that if a widget is closed, it knows to clear the event queue, free
pointers, and destroy objects properly. If you throw these tricks in,
at least you can help identify the problem by telling the program to
alert you when one of the tests fails.
M. Katz
; IDL function: window_valid.pro
;
; This function checks to make sure the given window number is valid,
; and returns 1=valid or 0=not valid.
;
function window_valid, num, window_state=window_state
device, window_state=window_state
n = n_elements(window_state)
return, (num GE 0) and (num LT n) and window_state(0 > num < (n-1))
end
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| Re: X11 macOSX woes [message #39594 is a reply to message #39583] |
Wed, 26 May 2004 18:13 |
Kenneth P. Bowman
Messages: 585
Registered: May 2000
|
Senior Member |
|
|
In article <2hkbu8Fd6o4jU1@uni-berlin.de>,
Ben Tupper <btupper@bigelow.org> wrote:
> The trouble is that *sometimes*, when the *last* open X11 window is
> closed, X11 crashes and IDL outputs...
>
> IDL> X connection to :0.0 broken (explicit kill or server shutdown).
>
> before IDL quits. Closing the window can be a manual close (click on
> the button) or a programmatic one (WDELETE).
>
> Has anyone bumped into this problem, too? How would I chase down where
> the problem lies.
A few times recently X11 has crashed on me, killing IDL in the process.
I was drawing graphics at the time, but nothing unusual.
It hasn't happened enough to see any patterns. Have you looked in
/cores to see if it left a core dump? Apple might be interested.
Ken Bowman
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