| Re: large source trees and networked paths in 7.0 [message #57191] |
Thu, 06 December 2007 08:19 |
![Paul Van Delst[1] is currently offline](theme/default/images/xoffline.png.pagespeed.ic.XRkd1fkXye.png "Paul Van Delst[1] is currently offline")
Paul Van Delst[1]
Messages: 1157
Registered: April 2002
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Senior Member |
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Vince Hradil wrote:
> On Dec 5, 7:11 pm, "R.G. Stockwell" <noem...@please.com> wrote:
>> <b_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>
<a whole bunch of stuff>
>
> Not to be rude, but I think you should look into CVS or SVN... ;^)
+1.
:o)
My vote is for subversion of cvs.
google subclipse for an eclipse plugin.
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| Re: large source trees and networked paths in 7.0 [message #57195 is a reply to message #57191] |
Thu, 06 December 2007 07:43  |
Vince Hradil
Messages: 574
Registered: December 1999
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Senior Member |
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On Dec 6, 9:34 am, "R.G. Stockwell" <noem...@please.com> wrote:
> "Vince Hradil" <hrad...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:ef9a56bb-0e4d-4691-96b1-4118c398162b@l1g2000hsa.googleg roups.com...
>
>> On Dec 5, 7:11 pm, "R.G. Stockwell" <noem...@please.com> wrote:
>>> <b_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
>>> news:4d495e40-e358-411c-8b1f-628008b93be2@e6g2000prf.googleg roups.com...
> ...
>
>> Not to be rude, but I think you should look into CVS or SVN... ;^)
>
> I use source control a lot in other areas (with Labview development mostly),
> just never seemed to need it with IDL, since my 'proprietary in house'
> source control
> is so easy.
>
> Cheers,
> bob
Oh, no... say no more. However, SVN is extremely easy to set up for
yourself. (shh... I do this, don't let this get out, though 8^)
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| Re: large source trees and networked paths in 7.0 [message #57196 is a reply to message #57195] |
Thu, 06 December 2007 07:34 |
R.G.Stockwell
Messages: 163
Registered: October 2004
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Senior Member |
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"Vince Hradil" <hradilv@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ef9a56bb-0e4d-4691-96b1-4118c398162b@l1g2000hsa.googleg roups.com...
> On Dec 5, 7:11 pm, "R.G. Stockwell" <noem...@please.com> wrote:
>> <b_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:4d495e40-e358-411c-8b1f-628008b93be2@e6g2000prf.googleg roups.com...
...
>
> Not to be rude, but I think you should look into CVS or SVN... ;^)
I use source control a lot in other areas (with Labview development mostly),
just never seemed to need it with IDL, since my 'proprietary in house'
source control
is so easy.
Cheers,
bob
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| Re: large source trees and networked paths in 7.0 [message #57223 is a reply to message #57196] |
Wed, 05 December 2007 18:33 |
Vince Hradil
Messages: 574
Registered: December 1999
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Senior Member |
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On Dec 5, 7:11 pm, "R.G. Stockwell" <noem...@please.com> wrote:
> <b_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:4d495e40-e358-411c-8b1f-628008b93be2@e6g2000prf.googleg roups.com...
>
>> On Dec 5, 3:57 pm, Rick Towler <rick.tow...@nomail.noaa.gov> wrote:
> ...
>> Presumably the Workbench is parsing every file in my (probably too
>> large) IDL source path, and examining files much more thouroughly than
>> previous versions of IDL did which only resolved the path for
>> each .pro file. This will add up to a large burden on my file server,
>> so apparently new users will have to configure the path more
>> restrictively, or set up projects for the specific libraries they want
>> to use. Unless I'm still missing something.
>
> Something like this is a killer for me because of two things.
> 1) I like to use a couple routines from Coyote, a couple from
> the astro lib, a couple from another library (for instance).
> So I will almost always require to have all of my projects open,
> with their hundreds of files that will be processed.
>
> 2) my 'trail of bread crumbs' development is going to be horrible.
> As an example, when I get a new data set, i start with an exploratory main
> routine that simply reads the data, and plots it out. I call it
> "look1.pro'.
> Then I will save it as 'look2.pro' and add some functionality now
> that I can actually see the data. Then 'look3.pro' adds some basic
> error checking, 'look4.pro' puts in some data bounds checking,
> look5.pro will allow keyword based functionality, then i finalize
> it as 'read_QWERTYData.pro'. I put all the old look*.pro routines
> in a ../devel folder so I can dig back into it if i ever need to.
> So a great deal of my code is development - not intended for final
> use, but explicitly stored with the final code so I can find it.
>
> With this setup, I guess I will have to cheat and try to fool IDL7
> into skipping the programs (like renaming them look*.pro_devel or
> something).
>
> Cheers,
> bob
Not to be rude, but I think you should look into CVS or SVN... ;^)
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| Re: large source trees and networked paths in 7.0 [message #57226 is a reply to message #57223] |
Wed, 05 December 2007 17:11 |
R.G.Stockwell
Messages: 163
Registered: October 2004
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Senior Member |
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<b_gom@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4d495e40-e358-411c-8b1f-628008b93be2@e6g2000prf.googleg roups.com...
> On Dec 5, 3:57 pm, Rick Towler <rick.tow...@nomail.noaa.gov> wrote:
...
> Presumably the Workbench is parsing every file in my (probably too
> large) IDL source path, and examining files much more thouroughly than
> previous versions of IDL did which only resolved the path for
> each .pro file. This will add up to a large burden on my file server,
> so apparently new users will have to configure the path more
> restrictively, or set up projects for the specific libraries they want
> to use. Unless I'm still missing something.
Something like this is a killer for me because of two things.
1) I like to use a couple routines from Coyote, a couple from
the astro lib, a couple from another library (for instance).
So I will almost always require to have all of my projects open,
with their hundreds of files that will be processed.
2) my 'trail of bread crumbs' development is going to be horrible.
As an example, when I get a new data set, i start with an exploratory main
routine that simply reads the data, and plots it out. I call it
"look1.pro'.
Then I will save it as 'look2.pro' and add some functionality now
that I can actually see the data. Then 'look3.pro' adds some basic
error checking, 'look4.pro' puts in some data bounds checking,
look5.pro will allow keyword based functionality, then i finalize
it as 'read_QWERTYData.pro'. I put all the old look*.pro routines
in a ../devel folder so I can dig back into it if i ever need to.
So a great deal of my code is development - not intended for final
use, but explicitly stored with the final code so I can find it.
With this setup, I guess I will have to cheat and try to fool IDL7
into skipping the programs (like renaming them look*.pro_devel or
something).
Cheers,
bob
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| Re: large source trees and networked paths in 7.0 [message #57228 is a reply to message #57226] |
Wed, 05 December 2007 17:01 |
Vince Hradil
Messages: 574
Registered: December 1999
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Senior Member |
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On Dec 5, 6:37 pm, Doug Edmundson <do...@ittvis.com> wrote:
> b_...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> On Dec 5, 4:29 pm, Doug Edmundson <do...@ittvis.com> wrote:
>>> Suffice it to say the IDL Workbench needs to do a smarter job with the
>>> parsing. There is a plan to improve that module.
>
>> How about an option to disable it?
>
> Yes... that's an option that has been discussed. The downside there,
> obviously, is that a lot nice functionality would become unavailable.
> Ideally we'd make it super fast so one wouldn't feel the need to disable
> it. We'll see.
>
> Cheers,
> Doug
My two cents (more):
What good is "Analyzing code..."?
Well the advantage is if you want to use Content Assistant and Balloon
Help (whatever it's called). However, emacs/idl-pvwave does this just
great using the "catalog" approach.
Even if you disable all of YOUR paths, and just use the Default, the
IDLDE still has to parse the IDL libraries for CA and BH, which can
still take some time.
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| Re: large source trees and networked paths in 7.0 [message #57231 is a reply to message #57228] |
Wed, 05 December 2007 16:37 |
Doug Edmundson
Messages: 58
Registered: November 2005
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Member |
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b_gom@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Dec 5, 4:29 pm, Doug Edmundson <do...@ittvis.com> wrote:
>> Suffice it to say the IDL Workbench needs to do a smarter job with the
>> parsing. There is a plan to improve that module.
>
> How about an option to disable it?
Yes... that's an option that has been discussed. The downside there,
obviously, is that a lot nice functionality would become unavailable.
Ideally we'd make it super fast so one wouldn't feel the need to disable
it. We'll see.
Cheers,
Doug
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| Re: large source trees and networked paths in 7.0 [message #57235 is a reply to message #57233] |
Wed, 05 December 2007 16:09 |
b_gom
Messages: 105
Registered: April 2003
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Senior Member |
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On Dec 5, 3:57 pm, Rick Towler <rick.tow...@nomail.noaa.gov> wrote:
> That's not how I read Doug's email (Re: IDL 7 on LINUX Question dated
> 11/30 @5:55 PST). He states that you can turn off the "Update IDL Path
> Preference" property which will allow IDL 7 to behave like earlier
> versions. I would guess (I haven't installed it yet) that you can unset
> this property, set the path appropriately, never use the projects, and
> write simple programs as before.
Well, I've tried pretending I was a new user in my group. I started
fresh with a new workspace, not defining any other projects, setting
the path to search my normal network source repository, and disabling
the 'Update IDL Path' option in the default project. Now, when I start
IDL, I can access programs from the command line, and write code the
'old fashioned' way. However, I still get the 'Analyzing Code'
progress bar which never goes away, and the network usage which stays
at ~170KB/s for as long as I care to wait.
Presumably the Workbench is parsing every file in my (probably too
large) IDL source path, and examining files much more thouroughly than
previous versions of IDL did which only resolved the path for
each .pro file. This will add up to a large burden on my file server,
so apparently new users will have to configure the path more
restrictively, or set up projects for the specific libraries they want
to use. Unless I'm still missing something.
Is there a way to disable the other fancy features in the Workbench,
which require parsing all the procedures in the path?
If not, I'm suspecting that I will have to define a set of projects
with linked resources, for all the groups of library functions that
new users are likely to need, and put these in a project folder in my
networked source tree. New users will have these projects included in
their default workspace, and will need to open the appropriate library
projects depending on what they are doing, and close them to conserve
bandwith (and a lot of CPU cycles).
(However, I've also noticed that when I close a project with a linked
path in it, and the 'Update IDL Path' option is enabled for that
project, the Workbench continues to parse the contained procedures and
the path isn't removed from the !PATH variable. This doesn't seem
right. In other words, when I open the project, the paths are added
to !PATH, but when I close the project, the paths aren't removed.)
The other option is to set up a CVS server and use the new CVS
features, but this isn't very attractive from a simplicity point of
view either.
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| Re: large source trees and networked paths in 7.0 [message #57249 is a reply to message #57235] |
Wed, 05 December 2007 15:29 |
Doug Edmundson
Messages: 58
Registered: November 2005
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Member |
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Rick Towler wrote:
> b_gom wrote:
>
>> Also, this will effectively force all users
>> to setup a workspace and juggle projects for all the libraries, which
>> means I can't just tell new users who just write simple programs to
>> ignore the projects\workspace features.
>
> That's not how I read Doug's email (Re: IDL 7 on LINUX Question dated
> 11/30 @5:55 PST). He states that you can turn off the "Update IDL Path
> Preference" property which will allow IDL 7 to behave like earlier
> versions. I would guess (I haven't installed it yet) that you can unset
> this property, set the path appropriately, never use the projects, and
> write simple programs as before.
>
> -Rick
>
When the "Update IDL Path Preference" property is turned off, the IDL
Workbench won't add/remove projects to your path, but it will still try
and parse all your PRO code in !path, open projects, open editors and
current directory. Path management and construction of the PRO code
database are distinct. The former can be turned off via that project
property; the latter can't.
The only way I can see to minimize this is what I think already has been
suggested. Namely, have the IDL Workbench manage your path (at least
with respect to the large libraries) and close those large library
projects that are not being used. Closed projects are not parsed.
Unfortunately this may not be a practical option, but it's something to
consider.
Suffice it to say the IDL Workbench needs to do a smarter job with the
parsing. There is a plan to improve that module.
Doug
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| Re: large source trees and networked paths in 7.0 [message #57260 is a reply to message #57249] |
Wed, 05 December 2007 15:10 |
David Fanning
Messages: 11724
Registered: August 2001
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Senior Member |
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Rick Towler writes:
> I would guess (I haven't installed it yet) that you can unset
> this property, set the path appropriately, never use the projects, and
> write simple programs as before.
Well, no, I don't think so. It is possible to "Open a File"
in the normal way, but you can't "Save" it anywhere but
into a project folder. So you are going to HAVE to use
projects if you want to do any work in IDL. And the projects
have to be open for you to save a file there.
This was the biggest hurtle for me, because it interrupts
the normal flow of my work. I work with files in the coyote
directory (where they are under version control), but I want
to save them over in my web page directory where I can move
them to my web page. I couldn't save those files anymore.
I had to save them back into Coyote, and go drag them where
I wanted them. That still feels uncomfortable to me.
Cheers,
David
--
David Fanning, Ph.D.
Fanning Software Consulting, Inc.
Coyote's Guide to IDL Programming: http://www.dfanning.com/
Sepore ma de ni thui. ("Perhaps thou speakest truth.")
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| Re: large source trees and networked paths in 7.0 [message #57263 is a reply to message #57260] |
Wed, 05 December 2007 15:01 |
Vince Hradil
Messages: 574
Registered: December 1999
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Senior Member |
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On Dec 5, 4:57 pm, Rick Towler <rick.tow...@nomail.noaa.gov> wrote:
> b_gom wrote:
>> Also, this will effectively force all users
>> to setup a workspace and juggle projects for all the libraries, which
>> means I can't just tell new users who just write simple programs to
>> ignore the projects\workspace features.
>
> That's not how I read Doug's email (Re: IDL 7 on LINUX Question dated
> 11/30 @5:55 PST). He states that you can turn off the "Update IDL Path
> Preference" property which will allow IDL 7 to behave like earlier
> versions. I would guess (I haven't installed it yet) that you can unset
> this property, set the path appropriately, never use the projects, and
> write simple programs as before.
>
> -Rick
You have to have a least one "project" even if it is "Default" - I
think it's an Eclipse thing.
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| Re: large source trees and networked paths in 7.0 [message #57264 is a reply to message #57263] |
Wed, 05 December 2007 14:57 |
Rick Towler
Messages: 821
Registered: August 1998
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Senior Member |
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b_gom wrote:
> Also, this will effectively force all users
> to setup a workspace and juggle projects for all the libraries, which
> means I can't just tell new users who just write simple programs to
> ignore the projects\workspace features.
That's not how I read Doug's email (Re: IDL 7 on LINUX Question dated
11/30 @5:55 PST). He states that you can turn off the "Update IDL Path
Preference" property which will allow IDL 7 to behave like earlier
versions. I would guess (I haven't installed it yet) that you can unset
this property, set the path appropriately, never use the projects, and
write simple programs as before.
-Rick
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| Re: large source trees and networked paths in 7.0 [message #57280 is a reply to message #57264] |
Wed, 05 December 2007 12:04 |
David Fanning
Messages: 11724
Registered: August 2001
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Senior Member |
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b_gom@hotmail.com writes:
> Naturally this is the result of the workbench searching through the
> path, but I'm a bit concerned at how much longer this takes than in
> 6.4, and how much bandwidth will be used up on our server when we have
> 10 or 15 users signed in. Also, this will effectively force all users
> to setup a workspace and juggle projects for all the libraries, which
> means I can't just tell new users who just write simple programs to
> ignore the projects\workspace features.
I think you understand the gist of it. :-)
Cheers,
David
--
David Fanning, Ph.D.
Fanning Software Consulting, Inc.
Coyote's Guide to IDL Programming: http://www.dfanning.com/
Sepore ma de ni thui. ("Perhaps thou speakest truth.")
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| Re: large source trees and networked paths in 7.0 [message #57282 is a reply to message #57280] |
Wed, 05 December 2007 12:00 |
b_gom
Messages: 105
Registered: April 2003
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Senior Member |
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On Dec 5, 12:22 pm, David Fanning <n...@dfanning.com> wrote:
> Check the newsgroup archives for earlier this week.
> I'm in the process of writing an article about it, too.
Ah, the Linux title threw me off.
Naturally this is the result of the workbench searching through the
path, but I'm a bit concerned at how much longer this takes than in
6.4, and how much bandwidth will be used up on our server when we have
10 or 15 users signed in. Also, this will effectively force all users
to setup a workspace and juggle projects for all the libraries, which
means I can't just tell new users who just write simple programs to
ignore the projects\workspace features.
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