| Re: SVN Question [message #57507] |
Mon, 10 December 2007 13:23 |
![Paul Van Delst[1] is currently offline](theme/default/images/xoffline.png.pagespeed.ic.XRkd1fkXye.png "Paul Van Delst[1] is currently offline")
Paul Van Delst[1]
Messages: 1157
Registered: April 2002
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Senior Member |
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David Fanning wrote:
> I guess one of the things that bothers me about this
> interface (and iTools, too, come to think of it), is
> all kinds of options and buttons and things that you
> can safely ignore and don't pertain in the slightest
> to anything you probably want to be doing, but there
> they are, calling to you, begging you to understand
> them. And, of course, since it is ALL new to me, I
> don't understand the difference between something that
> can be ignored and something that is useful.
But David, it's the IDL way.
I try to be a minimalist so I'm naturally biased against that sort of everything and the
kitchen sink approach. :o)
cheers,
paulv
> Reminds me of my trips to Munich, but without the good
> company and beer.
p.s. Reminds me of trying to figure out which mutual funds (out of 1000's) to select for
my 403(b).
p.p.s. We could all learn from:
http://www.amazon.com/Paradox-Choice-Why-More-Less/dp/006000 5688
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| Re: SVN Question [message #57509 is a reply to message #57507] |
Mon, 10 December 2007 12:50  |
Vince Hradil
Messages: 574
Registered: December 1999
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Senior Member |
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On Dec 10, 2:41 pm, David Fanning <n...@dfanning.com> wrote:
> Vince Hradil writes:
>> From the workbench users guide:
>
> Where did you find the Workbench User's Guide. I've
> been looking for it.
>
> Cheers,
>
> David
> --
> David Fanning, Ph.D.
> Fanning Software Consulting, Inc.
> Coyote's Guide to IDL Programming:http://www.dfanning.com/
> Sepore ma de ni thui. ("Perhaps thou speakest truth.")
rmm... Help->Workbench User's Guide 8^}
In particular I was quoting: Help->Workbench User's Guide->Tasks-
> Working with Team...->Versioning->Working with Patches.
It's also available at help.eclipse.org
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| Re: SVN Question [message #57510 is a reply to message #57509] |
Mon, 10 December 2007 12:41 |
David Fanning
Messages: 11724
Registered: August 2001
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Senior Member |
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Vince Hradil writes:
> From the workbench users guide:
Where did you find the Workbench User's Guide. I've
been looking for it.
Cheers,
David
--
David Fanning, Ph.D.
Fanning Software Consulting, Inc.
Coyote's Guide to IDL Programming: http://www.dfanning.com/
Sepore ma de ni thui. ("Perhaps thou speakest truth.")
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| Re: SVN Question [message #57511 is a reply to message #57510] |
Mon, 10 December 2007 12:37 |
Vince Hradil
Messages: 574
Registered: December 1999
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Senior Member |
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On Dec 10, 2:30 pm, David Fanning <n...@dfanning.com> wrote:
> David Fanning writes:
>> P.S. I just opened my UNIX installation to see what the
>> Team pop-up menu says there. *Much* fewer options, but
>> one of those is "Apply Patch". Is there any chance at
>> all that selecting this option will make that sorry machine
>> faster?
>
> Ok, I just tracked down *another* source of confusion.
> (Which only begs more questions, but, hey, this can be
> as much a spiritual path as any other.)
>
> If I right click on files that are NOT under Subversion
> control in my Project Explorer I find that pesky "Apply Patch..."
> option, as well as a "Show Local History". Selecting the
> first asks me to locate the "patch" (What patch!? You asked
> me!). Selecting the second tells me I have "no local history".
> Thank God! I'd be VERY worried if I thought there was a
> paper trail.
>
> Of course, if I select a file that IS under Subversion
> control, I get all kinds of useful selections under the
> same menu. Significantly, "Apply Patch..." is not one of
> them.
>
> I guess one of the things that bothers me about this
> interface (and iTools, too, come to think of it), is
> all kinds of options and buttons and things that you
> can safely ignore and don't pertain in the slightest
> to anything you probably want to be doing, but there
> they are, calling to you, begging you to understand
> them. And, of course, since it is ALL new to me, I
> don't understand the difference between something that
> can be ignored and something that is useful.
>
> Reminds me of my trips to Munich, but without the good
> company and beer.
>
> Cheers,
>
> David
>
> --
> David Fanning, Ph.D.
> Fanning Software Consulting, Inc.
> Coyote's Guide to IDL Programming:http://www.dfanning.com/
> Sepore ma de ni thui. ("Perhaps thou speakest truth.")
From the workbench users guide:
Working with patches
Patches allow developers to share work without storing it in a
repository. This is helpful when a developer wants to contribute to a
project that is shared through a repository but does not have write
access to the repository. In this situation, the developer can create
a patch and either e-mail it to a developer who does have write access
or attach it to a bug in the bug reporting system used by the project,
depending on the process defined by the project. A developer that does
have write access can then apply the patch to the project and commit
the changes.
You have to remember that the IDLDE is not the only thing going on
here. The Eclipse environment was created for developers using things
like Java and C/C++. So there are a lot of bells and whistles that we
can ignore, no matter how tempting...
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| Re: SVN Question [message #57512 is a reply to message #57511] |
Mon, 10 December 2007 12:30 |
David Fanning
Messages: 11724
Registered: August 2001
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Senior Member |
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David Fanning writes:
> P.S. I just opened my UNIX installation to see what the
> Team pop-up menu says there. *Much* fewer options, but
> one of those is "Apply Patch". Is there any chance at
> all that selecting this option will make that sorry machine
> faster?
Ok, I just tracked down *another* source of confusion.
(Which only begs more questions, but, hey, this can be
as much a spiritual path as any other.)
If I right click on files that are NOT under Subversion
control in my Project Explorer I find that pesky "Apply Patch..."
option, as well as a "Show Local History". Selecting the
first asks me to locate the "patch" (What patch!? You asked
me!). Selecting the second tells me I have "no local history".
Thank God! I'd be VERY worried if I thought there was a
paper trail.
Of course, if I select a file that IS under Subversion
control, I get all kinds of useful selections under the
same menu. Significantly, "Apply Patch..." is not one of
them.
I guess one of the things that bothers me about this
interface (and iTools, too, come to think of it), is
all kinds of options and buttons and things that you
can safely ignore and don't pertain in the slightest
to anything you probably want to be doing, but there
they are, calling to you, begging you to understand
them. And, of course, since it is ALL new to me, I
don't understand the difference between something that
can be ignored and something that is useful.
Reminds me of my trips to Munich, but without the good
company and beer.
Cheers,
David
--
David Fanning, Ph.D.
Fanning Software Consulting, Inc.
Coyote's Guide to IDL Programming: http://www.dfanning.com/
Sepore ma de ni thui. ("Perhaps thou speakest truth.")
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| Re: SVN Question [message #57513 is a reply to message #57512] |
Mon, 10 December 2007 12:01 |
David Fanning
Messages: 11724
Registered: August 2001
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Senior Member |
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Vince Hradil writes:
>
> I think "Team" comes from the Subclipse plugin - as in "Team of
> programmers". I'm a small team of one - I suspect many of us are 8^)
That's probably my problem. I share this space with Coyote
and the dog. The dog is not too bad. She pokes me in the
elbow every now and then, which causes some messy code,
but giving her a treat sorts it out for another couple of
hours.
But, Coyote is incorrigible! I've had to install my
SNVRepository file six times now because he keeps screwing
it up. I guess we are just really lucky I'm the only
one in the IDL Universe struggling with this.
Cheers,
David
P.S. I just opened my UNIX installation to see what the
Team pop-up menu says there. *Much* fewer options, but
one of those is "Apply Patch". Is there any chance at
all that selecting this option will make that sorry machine
faster?
--
David Fanning, Ph.D.
Fanning Software Consulting, Inc.
Coyote's Guide to IDL Programming: http://www.dfanning.com/
Sepore ma de ni thui. ("Perhaps thou speakest truth.")
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| Re: SVN Question [message #57514 is a reply to message #57513] |
Mon, 10 December 2007 11:50 |
Vince Hradil
Messages: 574
Registered: December 1999
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Senior Member |
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On Dec 10, 1:41 pm, David Fanning <n...@dfanning.com> wrote:
> mgal...@gmail.com writes:
>> Don't forget this book:
>
>> http://svnbook.red-bean.com/
>
>> The "Team" menu for the Subclipse plugin is pretty much a direct
>> mapping from the svn command line interface.
>
> OK, so at least the first 20 or so references to "team"
> in that book seem to be talking about "programming teams",
> people writing software together. Does "Team" in the
> context of this Pop-Up menu mean the "kinds of things
> you could do if you were working on a programming team",
> or is it something more generic to plug-ins? Or, did this
> menu item not even appear before I installed the
> Subclipse plug-in? (I am loath to uninstall it now that
> it is working to find out.)
>
> I'm just trying to understand why someone would find
> themselves looking for the "Team" menu to do some of
> this stuff.
>
> Cheers,
>
> David
>
> --
> David Fanning, Ph.D.
> Fanning Software Consulting, Inc.
> Coyote's Guide to IDL Programming:http://www.dfanning.com/
> Sepore ma de ni thui. ("Perhaps thou speakest truth.")
I think "Team" comes from the Subclipse plugin - as in "Team of
programmers". I'm a small team of one - I suspect many of us are 8^)
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| Re: SVN Question [message #57515 is a reply to message #57514] |
Mon, 10 December 2007 11:41 |
David Fanning
Messages: 11724
Registered: August 2001
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Senior Member |
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mgalloy@gmail.com writes:
> Don't forget this book:
>
> http://svnbook.red-bean.com/
>
> The "Team" menu for the Subclipse plugin is pretty much a direct
> mapping from the svn command line interface.
OK, so at least the first 20 or so references to "team"
in that book seem to be talking about "programming teams",
people writing software together. Does "Team" in the
context of this Pop-Up menu mean the "kinds of things
you could do if you were working on a programming team",
or is it something more generic to plug-ins? Or, did this
menu item not even appear before I installed the
Subclipse plug-in? (I am loath to uninstall it now that
it is working to find out.)
I'm just trying to understand why someone would find
themselves looking for the "Team" menu to do some of
this stuff.
Cheers,
David
--
David Fanning, Ph.D.
Fanning Software Consulting, Inc.
Coyote's Guide to IDL Programming: http://www.dfanning.com/
Sepore ma de ni thui. ("Perhaps thou speakest truth.")
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| Re: SVN Question [message #57516 is a reply to message #57515] |
Mon, 10 December 2007 11:30 |
Michael Galloy
Messages: 1114
Registered: April 2006
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Senior Member |
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On Dec 10, 11:53 am, David Fanning <n...@dfanning.com> wrote:
> P.S. I'm going to go look for that book right now. I'm
> pretty sure most of my problem is that I don't have a
> clue what I am doing yet.
Don't forget this book:
http://svnbook.red-bean.com/
The "Team" menu for the Subclipse plugin is pretty much a direct
mapping from the svn command line interface.
Mike
--
www.michaelgalloy.com
Tech-X Corporation
Software Developer II
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| Re: SVN Question [message #57517 is a reply to message #57516] |
Mon, 10 December 2007 10:53 |
David Fanning
Messages: 11724
Registered: August 2001
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Senior Member |
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Paul van Delst writes:
> There are some additional naming conventions for bug fixes if you have a tracking
> system too.
Yeah, I'm setting that up this afternoon. :-)
Cheers,
David
P.S. I'm going to go look for that book right now. I'm
pretty sure most of my problem is that I don't have a
clue what I am doing yet.
--
David Fanning, Ph.D.
Fanning Software Consulting, Inc.
Coyote's Guide to IDL Programming: http://www.dfanning.com/
Sepore ma de ni thui. ("Perhaps thou speakest truth.")
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| Re: SVN Question [message #57520 is a reply to message #57517] |
Mon, 10 December 2007 10:48 |
Paul Van Delst[1]
Messages: 1157
Registered: April 2002
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Senior Member |
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David Fanning wrote:
> Paul van Delst writes:
>
>> This statement confuses me. You don't have replicated files in your repository, surely?
>> E.g. there is only one version of fsc_color.pro that is used by code in both the "coyote"
>> and "catalyst" directories.
>
> Some of you may have experienced the difficulties inherent
> in trying to maintain backward compatible code. Of course,
> I always stay on the cutting edge of things, but occasionally
> customers have older (MUCH older!) versions of IDL. Catalyst,
> in particular, seems to run into this problem, and I've had
> to maintain "old" versions that don't support some of the
> newest features of the language.
Wouldn't older version be tagged as "released" or in separate release branches? You don't
want old stuff polluting your trunk, surely.
The way I organise my repository (not my idea, adapted it from Mike Mason's "Pragmatic
Version Control using Subversion") is via the following conventions:
e.g.:
svnrepos
|-- trunk
|-- branches
| |-- RB-1.0
| |-- RB-1.0.1
| |-- RB-1.0.2
| |-- EXP-exp1_name
| |-- EXP-exp2_name
| `-- RB-2.0
`-- tags
|-- REL-1.0
`-- REL-1.0.1
with:
trunk: The main line of stable, planned development
branches:
- Release Branches are label "RB-rel#"
- EXPerimental development branches are labeled "EXP-desc"
tags:
- Actual RELeases are label "REL-rel#" (matches the RB tag)
- Also tag snapshots of trunk or other branches (add the date and rev# to tag).
- NO DEVELOPMENT (otherwise it would be a branch).
So, if I need to keep an older release around (that some client is still using, dammit
:o), it's in a branch. Appropriate changes can still be merged to/from the trunk from/to
any of the branches as needed. Bleeding edge stuff goes in a "EXP" branch.
In subversion, branches and tags are cheap - so use 'em liberally and wear them out.
cheers,
paulv
p.s. There are some additional naming conventions for bug fixes if you have a tracking
system too.
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| Re: SVN Question [message #57525 is a reply to message #57520] |
Mon, 10 December 2007 09:28 |
David Fanning
Messages: 11724
Registered: August 2001
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Senior Member |
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Paul van Delst writes:
> This statement confuses me. You don't have replicated files in your repository, surely?
> E.g. there is only one version of fsc_color.pro that is used by code in both the "coyote"
> and "catalyst" directories.
Some of you may have experienced the difficulties inherent
in trying to maintain backward compatible code. Of course,
I always stay on the cutting edge of things, but occasionally
customers have older (MUCH older!) versions of IDL. Catalyst,
in particular, seems to run into this problem, and I've had
to maintain "old" versions that don't support some of the
newest features of the language.
Cheers,
David
--
David Fanning, Ph.D.
Fanning Software Consulting, Inc.
Coyote's Guide to IDL Programming: http://www.dfanning.com/
Sepore ma de ni thui. ("Perhaps thou speakest truth.")
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| Re: SVN Question [message #57526 is a reply to message #57525] |
Mon, 10 December 2007 09:23 |
David Fanning
Messages: 11724
Registered: August 2001
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Senior Member |
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Paul van Delst writes:
> I can't help you with Workbench-related stuff apart from asking "Why is an IDE making it
> *harder* for you to do work?"
I haven't come to a final conclusion about whether the
problem lies with the IDE or with the clueless programmer.
But I'm just saying, if I am in any respect "typical" of
the sort of person tying to do this and take advantage
of the future, then its not as, uh, obvious as I hoped
it would be. :-(
Cheers,
David
P.S. Let's just say a couple of book ideas have
already sprung to mind this morning. When given
lemons, make lemonade!
--
David Fanning, Ph.D.
Fanning Software Consulting, Inc.
Coyote's Guide to IDL Programming: http://www.dfanning.com/
Sepore ma de ni thui. ("Perhaps thou speakest truth.")
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| Re: SVN Question [message #57527 is a reply to message #57526] |
Mon, 10 December 2007 09:08 |
Paul Van Delst[1]
Messages: 1157
Registered: April 2002
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Senior Member |
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David Fanning wrote:
> Subversion Experts,
>
> I am still struggling to get my subversion database set
> up the way I want it so I can manage it from within
> the Workbench.
>
> I set up a SNVRepository with TortoiseSNV and imported
> a trunk, branches, and tags directory structure.
>
> What I would like to have is under "trunk" the directories
> "coyote", "catalyst", etc. I was able to do this with
> TortoiseSNV, but I am trying to learn how to do this
> under the Workbench. (I'm always thinking about how I
> would teach this to someone else.)
>
> So, with just the trunk, branches, and tags directories in
> my repository, I bring up the SVN Repository view, and I
> right click inside it, and choose Export.
Don't you want "checkout" ? I assume you're creating a new local sandbox. I only use
"export" when I want to package code up for delivery (i.e. I don't want all the ".svn"
subdirs in my tarball... although the --exclude flag in "tar" works for that too).
> The URL of my
> repository shows up, but cannot be changed. It points
> to "trunk". I can export the proper directory with file,
> then I import them back into an IDL project (giving in and
> putting it in the IDL Workspace, as I am too weary to
> do otherwise), etc. But, in my repository, all the files
> are lumped into one big trunk directory.
>
> This is not what I want, as there is a possibility that
> some files in "coyote" should be different in "catalyst", etc.
This statement confuses me. You don't have replicated files in your repository, surely?
E.g. there is only one version of fsc_color.pro that is used by code in both the "coyote"
and "catalyst" directories.
Or do you mean "projects" here?
> Is the answer to do all repository setup with TortioseSNV,
> and just import files from there into the Workbench?
My MO is:
1) Create a sandbox (branch or trunk, depending on the magnitude of changes being made)
2) Modify code
3) Run tests
(repeat 2 and 3 as necessary)
4) Commit changes
(repeat 2-4 as necessary)
5) Merge with trunk (if appropriate).
You should be able to create as many sandboxes as you want, for different projects or
whatever. You should also be able to create "partial" sandboxes. I hardly ever check out
my entire repository. My Fortran95 subdir doesn't need to know about my IDL subdir.
I can't help you with Workbench-related stuff apart from asking "Why is an IDE making it
*harder* for you to do work?" Parts (2) and (3) are where I can see a developer would
benefit from IDE bells, whistles and gongs. But parts (1), (4), and (5) should simply be
passed along to Subversion, no?
cheers,
paulv
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| Re: SVN Question [message #57530 is a reply to message #57527] |
Mon, 10 December 2007 08:43 |
Vince Hradil
Messages: 574
Registered: December 1999
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Senior Member |
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On Dec 10, 10:27 am, David Fanning <n...@dfanning.com> wrote:
> Subversion Experts,
>
> I am still struggling to get my subversion database set
> up the way I want it so I can manage it from within
> the Workbench.
>
> I set up a SNVRepository with TortoiseSNV and imported
> a trunk, branches, and tags directory structure.
>
> What I would like to have is under "trunk" the directories
> "coyote", "catalyst", etc. I was able to do this with
> TortoiseSNV, but I am trying to learn how to do this
> under the Workbench. (I'm always thinking about how I
> would teach this to someone else.)
>
> So, with just the trunk, branches, and tags directories in
> my repository, I bring up the SVN Repository view, and I
> right click inside it, and choose Export. The URL of my
> repository shows up, but cannot be changed. It points
> to "trunk". I can export the proper directory with file,
> then I import them back into an IDL project (giving in and
> putting it in the IDL Workspace, as I am too weary to
> do otherwise), etc. But, in my repository, all the files
> are lumped into one big trunk directory.
>
> This is not what I want, as there is a possibility that
> some files in "coyote" should be different in "catalyst", etc.
>
> Is the answer to do all repository setup with TortioseSNV,
> and just import files from there into the Workbench?
>
> Signed,
>
> Confused (as always)
> --
> David Fanning, Ph.D.
> Fanning Software Consulting, Inc.
> Coyote's Guide to IDL Programming:http://www.dfanning.com/
> Sepore ma de ni thui. ("Perhaps thou speakest truth.")
So let me see... you want to have separate IDL projects for coyote,
catalyst, etc. in the IDLDE with the files in each of these to be from
the trunk/coyote, trunk/catalyst, trunk/etc. repository directories?
What you need to do is create the projects in IDLDE or using
TortoiseSVN as folders: coyote, catalyst, etc. Then "Check-out" (not
export, unless you really want to export, but then you can't keep
track of changes), each of the folders into the respective IDL project
folders. I'm not sure exactly how to do this in Workbench, but it
probably is something like - in SVN perspective, right-click on the
coyote folder and select "check-out" (or maybe Team->check-out [sorry
I don't have IDL in front of me right now]). The choose the
destination folder in the IDL workspace/project called "coyote".
Continue...
An easier way may be to check-out the entire trunk to a local
directory (using TortoiseSVN), the create projects in IDLDE from the
folders created by the check-out.
Good luck.
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