| Re: Object Graphics Windows in X Windows [message #59175] |
Fri, 07 March 2008 15:07 |
David Fanning
Messages: 11724
Registered: August 2001
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Senior Member |
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Karl writes:
> I noticed that Xming has a file in their download section with 'mesa'
> in its name. This may give you (Fanning) the 3d support you want.
Ah, it sure does! Thanks, Karl. And thanks for all the
good information, too.
Cheers,
David
--
David Fanning, Ph.D.
Fanning Software Consulting, Inc.
Coyote's Guide to IDL Programming (www.dfanning.com)
Sepore ma de ni thui. ("Perhaps thou speakest truth.")
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| Re: Object Graphics Windows in X Windows [message #59176 is a reply to message #59175] |
Fri, 07 March 2008 14:45  |
Karl[1]
Messages: 79
Registered: October 2005
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Member |
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On Mar 7, 2:59 pm, Vince Hradil <hrad...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Mar 7, 1:25 pm, "R.G. Stockwell" <notha...@noemail.com> wrote:
>
>> "R.G. Stockwell" <notha...@noemail.com> wrote in message
>
>> news:fqs4lj$fj3$1@aioe.org...
>
>>> "David Fanning" <n...@dfanning.com> wrote in message
>>> news:MPG.223a6f373da1440998a2b5@news.frii.com...
>> ...
>>> I use VNC (TightVNC) to access my linux desktop from my laptop,
>>> and it works very well. One nice feature is that you can have multiple
>>> people log on and share a desktop (i.e. to broadcast a meeting for
>>> instance).
>
>> PS I just verified that I-tools do indeed work under VNC remotely.
>
>> Cheers,
>> bob
>
> That's what I wanted to hear. Thanks.
I noticed that Xming has a file in their download section with 'mesa'
in its name. This may give you (Fanning) the 3d support you want.
Not all X servers support OpenGL. Xming strikes me as a sort of
lightweight product that has minimal frills. So, they probably made
the GL support, which is not a lightweight feature, an option.
I'd suggest that David download and try the 'mesa' option. I couldn't
find many docs on that Sourceforge site and I have not played with
this X server myself, so I cannot say much more about it.
The other poster who said they were using IDL with Xming just fine was
apparently only using Direct Graphics, which is pure X protocol.
X servers that support OpenGL over a remote connection do so via the
GLX extension to the X prototcol, which is basically a protocol
wrapper for OpenGL graphical elements.
As an X client, what IDL is *supposed* to do if it hooks up to a
remote X server that supports GLX is to send GLX protocol for Object
Graphics. If the server does not support GLX, IDL should render
OpenGL to a local software buffer, and then blit that to the X server
via X protocol.
On a remote connection, each of these methods have a different "wire
cost". The GLX connection performance will depend on the complexity
of the scene in terms of number of primitives, etc. The software
rendering path will be a consistent wire load, the cost of blitting a
window-sized bitmap.
If the user forces software rendering, IDL will render the scene using
software and send the buffer to the X server.
These same principles apply to a local environment, client and server
on the same machine, except that there is a "direct" connection
between the X client IDL, and the X server, where the 3D commands are
sent more directly to the graphics processor for performance reasons.
Now, as a server, the Xming product itself with the mesa option may or
may not hardware accelerate OpenGL. Since the name of their optional
module is 'mesa', that suggests software rendering, but that may not
be the case - it could easily be hardware accelerated. It depends on
how Xming was implemented. And Mesa supports hardware accel OpenGL on
many platforms and devices. (Mesa is the OpenGL lib used to implement
GL on Linux and other environments)
I've seen really good performance running a remote OpenGL app and
having it display on the Linux based X server with hardware
accelerated OpenGL in front of me. As long as the protocol traffic
didn't get too large, it worked quite well.
These technologies (X, GLX, and Xming) are quite different from the
"remote desktop" approach to remote computing. In the former, you
have an application, or set of applications, sending protocol to the
server. For a remote desktop situation like VNC, you're rendering the
entire desktop on the remote side and doing an efficient desktop
"copy" operation to the client viewing program, using special tiling
algorithms.
The X VNC server presents itself as just an basic X "framebuffer"
server to the attaching X client, and usually does not support GLX.
(If it did support GLX, it would likely be a software
implementation). If the attaching X client is IDL, IDL would see that
there is no GLX, and then revert back to software rendering and send a
bitmap with the result to the X VNC server. That's why IDL and I-
Tools work with VNC. IDL is probably using software rendering here.
Karl
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| Re: Object Graphics Windows in X Windows [message #59177 is a reply to message #59176] |
Fri, 07 March 2008 12:59 |
Vince Hradil
Messages: 574
Registered: December 1999
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Senior Member |
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On Mar 7, 1:25 pm, "R.G. Stockwell" <notha...@noemail.com> wrote:
> "R.G. Stockwell" <notha...@noemail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:fqs4lj$fj3$1@aioe.org...
>
>
>
>> "David Fanning" <n...@dfanning.com> wrote in message
>> news:MPG.223a6f373da1440998a2b5@news.frii.com...
> ...
>> I use VNC (TightVNC) to access my linux desktop from my laptop,
>> and it works very well. One nice feature is that you can have multiple
>> people log on and share a desktop (i.e. to broadcast a meeting for
>> instance).
>
> PS I just verified that I-tools do indeed work under VNC remotely.
>
> Cheers,
> bob
That's what I wanted to hear. Thanks.
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| Re: Object Graphics Windows in X Windows [message #59180 is a reply to message #59177] |
Fri, 07 March 2008 11:25 |
R.G. Stockwell
Messages: 363
Registered: July 1999
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Senior Member |
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"R.G. Stockwell" <nothanks@noemail.com> wrote in message
news:fqs4lj$fj3$1@aioe.org...
>
> "David Fanning" <news@dfanning.com> wrote in message
> news:MPG.223a6f373da1440998a2b5@news.frii.com...
...
> I use VNC (TightVNC) to access my linux desktop from my laptop,
> and it works very well. One nice feature is that you can have multiple
> people log on and share a desktop (i.e. to broadcast a meeting for
> instance).
PS I just verified that I-tools do indeed work under VNC remotely.
Cheers,
bob
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| Re: Object Graphics Windows in X Windows [message #59181 is a reply to message #59180] |
Fri, 07 March 2008 11:22 |
R.G. Stockwell
Messages: 363
Registered: July 1999
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Senior Member |
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"David Fanning" <news@dfanning.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.223a6f373da1440998a2b5@news.frii.com...
> Folks,
>
> I presume I'm the last to hear about this, but I learned
> about an X server that runs on Windows the other day,
> named Xming:
I use VNC (TightVNC) to access my linux desktop from my laptop,
and it works very well. One nice feature is that you can have multiple
people log on and share a desktop (i.e. to broadcast a meeting for
instance).
Another very nice feature is that you can go to that exact same desktop
from anywhere (different computers etc), so what I do is start a month long
number crunching routine in vnc on the desktop, then log in from work
to check the progress. Later than night log in from home to check it again.
Quite handy for a compute machine.
In fact, I don't even have my desktop hooked up to a monitor or keyboard,
I do all the interface via VNC from my laptop. Which allows me to do an
extended monitor with my laptop LCD, and my giant desktop LCD. nice.
Cheers,
bob
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| Re: Object Graphics Windows in X Windows [message #59192 is a reply to message #59181] |
Fri, 07 March 2008 07:56 |
Vince Hradil
Messages: 574
Registered: December 1999
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Senior Member |
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On Mar 7, 8:52 am, kBob <KRD...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mar 6, 9:15 pm, David Fanning <n...@dfanning.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>> Folks,
>
>> I presume I'm the last to hear about this, but I learned
>> about an X server that runs on Windows the other day,
>> named Xming:
>
>> http://sourceforge.net/projects/xming
>
>> It is very nice, and it's free. :-)
>
>> After installing it on my Windows machine, I can log
>> into my LINUX box at work from home and see my calendar,
>> e-mail, EMACS, and even the IDL Workbench! Wow. Who knew!?
>
>> It works great, except that the darn thing cannot
>> display any kind of object graphics window. This is
>> a HUGE disappointment, naturally, as I can't use my
>> iTools. ;-)
>
>> Is this an IDL problem, do you think, or an X server
>> problem? Would I have to do some kind of tweak to get
>> this to work? Any info is helpful.
>
>> Cheers,
>
>> David
>> --
>> David Fanning, Ph.D.
>> Fanning Software Consulting, Inc.
>> Coyote's Guide to IDL Programming:http://www.dfanning.com/
>> Sepore ma de ni thui. ("Perhaps thou speakest truth.")
>
> Yep! Your the last to hear about it.
>
> I have been using Xming on the office Windows XP desktop for years. It
> works just fine for displaying all my IDL widget applications (IDL
> 6.3) that run on the UNIX and Lunix boxes we us here. I fined it works
> much better than Exceed, Exceed onDemand, even Cygwin/X (another free
> XServer), which are common choices around here.
>
> I'll use PuTTY to login into the desired UNIX or Linux box and send
> the output to my trusted Windows XP desktop. By the way, PuTTY is
> design to work with Xming.
>
> However, I use a MSDOS command file to launch Xming from my desktop. I
> believe the secret to getting a display on your Windows desktop is to
> have the right settings.
>
> This is what I use in the StartXming.bat that has a shortcut on my
> desktop display ....
>
> c:
> cd \Program Files\Xming
> SET DISPLAYNO=0
> start Xming -ac :%DISPLAYNO% -emulate3buttons -multiwindow -
> multimonitors -clipboard -clipupdates 5
>
> Happy Friday!
>
> Kelly Dean
> Fort Collins, CO
David - have you tried VNC? (such as RealVNC). How does that compare?
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| Re: Object Graphics Windows in X Windows [message #59193 is a reply to message #59192] |
Fri, 07 March 2008 06:52 |
KRDean
Messages: 69
Registered: July 2006
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Member |
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On Mar 6, 9:15 pm, David Fanning <n...@dfanning.com> wrote:
> Folks,
>
> I presume I'm the last to hear about this, but I learned
> about an X server that runs on Windows the other day,
> named Xming:
>
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/xming
>
> It is very nice, and it's free. :-)
>
> After installing it on my Windows machine, I can log
> into my LINUX box at work from home and see my calendar,
> e-mail, EMACS, and even the IDL Workbench! Wow. Who knew!?
>
> It works great, except that the darn thing cannot
> display any kind of object graphics window. This is
> a HUGE disappointment, naturally, as I can't use my
> iTools. ;-)
>
> Is this an IDL problem, do you think, or an X server
> problem? Would I have to do some kind of tweak to get
> this to work? Any info is helpful.
>
> Cheers,
>
> David
> --
> David Fanning, Ph.D.
> Fanning Software Consulting, Inc.
> Coyote's Guide to IDL Programming:http://www.dfanning.com/
> Sepore ma de ni thui. ("Perhaps thou speakest truth.")
Yep! Your the last to hear about it.
I have been using Xming on the office Windows XP desktop for years. It
works just fine for displaying all my IDL widget applications (IDL
6.3) that run on the UNIX and Lunix boxes we us here. I fined it works
much better than Exceed, Exceed onDemand, even Cygwin/X (another free
XServer), which are common choices around here.
I'll use PuTTY to login into the desired UNIX or Linux box and send
the output to my trusted Windows XP desktop. By the way, PuTTY is
design to work with Xming.
However, I use a MSDOS command file to launch Xming from my desktop. I
believe the secret to getting a display on your Windows desktop is to
have the right settings.
This is what I use in the StartXming.bat that has a shortcut on my
desktop display ....
c:
cd \Program Files\Xming
SET DISPLAYNO=0
start Xming -ac :%DISPLAYNO% -emulate3buttons -multiwindow -
multimonitors -clipboard -clipupdates 5
Happy Friday!
Kelly Dean
Fort Collins, CO
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| Re: Object Graphics Windows in X Windows [message #59194 is a reply to message #59193] |
Fri, 07 March 2008 06:11 |
Norbert Hahn
Messages: 46
Registered: May 2003
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Member |
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David Fanning <news@dfanning.com> wrote:
> It works great, except that the darn thing cannot
> display any kind of object graphics window. This is
> a HUGE disappointment, naturally, as I can't use my
> iTools. ;-)
>
> Is this an IDL problem, do you think, or an X server
> problem? Would I have to do some kind of tweak to get
> this to work? Any info is helpful.
It might be an IDL problem. I use Xming on my Windows system
and work on several Linux computers. Some application have
problems opening the display.
When I look at the enviromnent variable DISPLAY usually I get
echo $DISPLAY
localhost:10.0
wich might tell the X Client (iTools in your case) that you are
working on a local X Server (that part of the X Window system
where your screen, keyboard ... are connected to).
If the application tries to use a short cut for a local server
this may fail. I don't know if this is the case but iTools isn't
the only application that fails with Xming.
Norbert
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| Re: Object Graphics Windows in X Windows [message #59195 is a reply to message #59194] |
Fri, 07 March 2008 05:56 |
Ding
Messages: 20
Registered: March 2008
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Junior Member |
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On Mar 7, 12:15 pm, David Fanning <n...@dfanning.com> wrote:
> Folks,
>
> I presume I'm the last to hear about this, but I learned
> about an X server that runs on Windows the other day,
> named Xming:
>
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/xming
>
> It is very nice, and it's free. :-)
>
> After installing it on my Windows machine, I can log
> into my LINUX box at work from home and see my calendar,
> e-mail, EMACS, and even the IDL Workbench! Wow. Who knew!?
>
> It works great, except that the darn thing cannot
> display any kind of object graphics window. This is
> a HUGE disappointment, naturally, as I can't use my
> iTools. ;-)
>
> Is this an IDL problem, do you think, or an X server
> problem? Would I have to do some kind of tweak to get
> this to work? Any info is helpful.
>
> Cheers,
>
> David
> --
> David Fanning, Ph.D.
> Fanning Software Consulting, Inc.
> Coyote's Guide to IDL Programming:http://www.dfanning.com/
> Sepore ma de ni thui. ("Perhaps thou speakest truth.")
Hi,
It seems like a Xserver problem, because I used X-win32 doing same
stuff and no problem appeared, when I turned to Xming I had same
problem.
I hope this can help you.
By the way, thank you for your book <IDL Programming Techniques>, I'm
a new user of IDL and it helps me a lot!
--
Ding
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| Re: Object Graphics Windows in X Windows [message #59198 is a reply to message #59195] |
Fri, 07 March 2008 01:10 |
Nigel Wade
Messages: 286
Registered: March 1998
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Senior Member |
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Lasse Clausen wrote:
> On 7 Mar, 05:15, David Fanning <n...@dfanning.com> wrote:
>> Folks,
>>
>> I presume I'm the last to hear about this, but I learned
>> about an X server that runs on Windows the other day,
>> named Xming:
>>
>> http://sourceforge.net/projects/xming
>>
>> It is very nice, and it's free. :-)
>>
>> After installing it on my Windows machine, I can log
>> into my LINUX box at work from home and see my calendar,
>> e-mail, EMACS, and even the IDL Workbench! Wow. Who knew!?
>>
>> It works great, except that the darn thing cannot
>> display any kind of object graphics window. This is
>> a HUGE disappointment, naturally, as I can't use my
>> iTools. ;-)
>>
>> Is this an IDL problem, do you think, or an X server
>> problem? Would I have to do some kind of tweak to get
>> this to work? Any info is helpful.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> David
>> --
>> David Fanning, Ph.D.
>> Fanning Software Consulting, Inc.
>> Coyote's Guide to IDL Programming:http://www.dfanning.com/
>> Sepore ma de ni thui. ("Perhaps thou speakest truth.")
>
> Hi,
>
> I am not sure if this answers your question but if you are looking for
> a possibility to connect to a Linux box from a Windows machine for
> free you might want to have a look at the NxClient/Server here:
> http://www.nomachine.com/products.php
> They have a free edition which allows a maximum of two users to
> connect to the Linux box. If you want/need more you have to pay.
>
> Essentially, NxClient gives you the Linux Desktop in a Windows window
> and allows you to work on your Linux machine as usual. The
> communication is done over SSH. It even enables copy-paste between the
> two machines.
>
> If that helps...
> Lasse Clausen
It also has the great advantage that it can compress the X protocol traffic.
This is of great help, as X is quite chatty between the client and the server,
when you are connected over slow or long latency lines, like ADSL at home.
It appears to handle object graphics, at least the demos run...
--
Nigel Wade, System Administrator, Space Plasma Physics Group,
University of Leicester, Leicester, LE1 7RH, UK
E-mail : nmw@ion.le.ac.uk
Phone : +44 (0)116 2523548, Fax : +44 (0)116 2523555
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| Re: Object Graphics Windows in X Windows [message #59200 is a reply to message #59198] |
Thu, 06 March 2008 23:31 |
lasse
Messages: 48
Registered: February 2007
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Member |
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On 7 Mar, 05:15, David Fanning <n...@dfanning.com> wrote:
> Folks,
>
> I presume I'm the last to hear about this, but I learned
> about an X server that runs on Windows the other day,
> named Xming:
>
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/xming
>
> It is very nice, and it's free. :-)
>
> After installing it on my Windows machine, I can log
> into my LINUX box at work from home and see my calendar,
> e-mail, EMACS, and even the IDL Workbench! Wow. Who knew!?
>
> It works great, except that the darn thing cannot
> display any kind of object graphics window. This is
> a HUGE disappointment, naturally, as I can't use my
> iTools. ;-)
>
> Is this an IDL problem, do you think, or an X server
> problem? Would I have to do some kind of tweak to get
> this to work? Any info is helpful.
>
> Cheers,
>
> David
> --
> David Fanning, Ph.D.
> Fanning Software Consulting, Inc.
> Coyote's Guide to IDL Programming:http://www.dfanning.com/
> Sepore ma de ni thui. ("Perhaps thou speakest truth.")
Hi,
I am not sure if this answers your question but if you are looking for
a possibility to connect to a Linux box from a Windows machine for
free you might want to have a look at the NxClient/Server here:
http://www.nomachine.com/products.php
They have a free edition which allows a maximum of two users to
connect to the Linux box. If you want/need more you have to pay.
Essentially, NxClient gives you the Linux Desktop in a Windows window
and allows you to work on your Linux machine as usual. The
communication is done over SSH. It even enables copy-paste between the
two machines.
If that helps...
Lasse Clausen
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