| 8.0 Developer Documentation [message #71929] |
Wed, 28 July 2010 16:51  |
Erik Rasmussen
Messages: 7
Registered: July 2010
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Junior Member |
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It looks like the new Help system does not include all of the class
documentation, and I guess so far I've just not found it very easy to
use for developer-oriented tasks. E.g. classes like IDLitManipulator,
IDLitOperation... everything under IDLitComponent for that matter. I
really need this stuff all the time.
I can look at it by popping open the 7.1 Workbench, launching Help,
and leaving that workbench turned on while I work under the 8.0
Workbench (although there may be some ugly side-effects of having two
workbenches open that I haven't found yet).
I thought the old class/method documentation was pretty useful. Does
anyone have any suggestions on how I can get it back in one form or
another? Or is it back to 7.1 for me?
(Or is this a subtle signal that iTools is on its way out?)
Thanks....
Erik
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| Re: 8.0 Developer Documentation [message #71961 is a reply to message #71929] |
Mon, 02 August 2010 14:51  |
Erik Rasmussen
Messages: 7
Registered: July 2010
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Junior Member |
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>
> The 7.1 help system should work on its own, sans workbench. It should
> be in .../itt/IDL71/idlde/. Sorry if I'm misunderstanding your question.
Ahhh thanks... I had poked around some but didn't notice the 7.1 help
app was under idlde/. This will help me a lot... I think I got the
gist of many of the 8.0 syntax changes through other sources, but I
always need to check the reference material for one thing or another.
Regarding priorities... for me it's the iTools reference material. I
am working on an iTool for digging into cloud model output, and I
think that project will be ongoing for another year anyway. But since
nothing has changed in the iTools framework for 8.0, the 7.1 help.app
is going to solve my immediate problem.
But I will echo the other posters.... everything (EVERYTHING) ought to
be accessible from the 8.0 help app.... I'm guessing it is just a
matter of time?
Thanks for your responses....
Erik
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| Re: 8.0 Developer Documentation [message #71963 is a reply to message #71929] |
Mon, 02 August 2010 11:10 |
Haje Korth
Messages: 651
Registered: May 1997
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Senior Member |
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Doug,
EDG and Analyst are the most pressing ones, but I really want all PDFs
in the help documentation.
A good help system is extremely important for usability, especially
for new users. I have other software packages I avoid as much as I can
because I cannot find commands in a timely manner...
H
On Aug 2, 12:46 pm, Paulo Penteado <pp.pente...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Aug 2, 12:42 pm, Doug Edmundson <do...@ittvis.com> wrote:
>
>> I've forwarded your idea on to the docs group. I talked to them last
>> week about the issue and I think they'd like to know which PDFs people
>> are using most. Are folks still heavy into iTools, dataminer, the EDG,
>> etc.? That info will help them gauge priorities.
>
>> The 7.1 help system should work on its own, sans workbench. It should
>> be in .../itt/IDL71/idlde/. Sorry if I'm misunderstanding your question.
>
>> I don't know if this'll help much, but note that on Mac one can open
>> multiple PDFs at the same time in Preview, as if they're all a chapter
>> in one big book. That might make searching a bit easier. Links should
>> work for the most part. I just tried Adobe Reader on Windows and am
>> feeling a bit of pain... ;-)
>
> It is very inconvenient to have to look for the pdfs, particularly
> lacking their content showing on searches of the help system. As I
> remember, through all the recent versions of the help system, it was
> always possible to search everywhere from a single place. Now, one
> needs to know that besides the help, there are those separate pdfs to
> look into. Besides the inconvenience (I am probably going to use
> Acrobat to join them into a single file, so that they become a bit
> easier to use), it is not obvious that these separate files exist - I
> only found out from this thread, and I was already missing some of the
> content I knew was present in previous versions. So many users might
> not find what they need just because it does not show up in the help
> system.
>
> At least there should be a way to launch the pdf reader on those pdfs
> directly from the Workbench or the help system, so that it is visible
> that they exist - if there is one already, it is not visible enough.
>
> Of those pdfs, I particularly use most often the parts about the
> internal API, the iTool classes, and the IMSL routines.
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| Re: 8.0 Developer Documentation [message #71965 is a reply to message #71929] |
Mon, 02 August 2010 09:46 |
penteado
Messages: 866
Registered: February 2018
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Senior Member
Administrator |
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On Aug 2, 12:42 pm, Doug Edmundson <do...@ittvis.com> wrote:
> I've forwarded your idea on to the docs group. I talked to them last
> week about the issue and I think they'd like to know which PDFs people
> are using most. Are folks still heavy into iTools, dataminer, the EDG,
> etc.? That info will help them gauge priorities.
>
> The 7.1 help system should work on its own, sans workbench. It should
> be in .../itt/IDL71/idlde/. Sorry if I'm misunderstanding your question.
>
> I don't know if this'll help much, but note that on Mac one can open
> multiple PDFs at the same time in Preview, as if they're all a chapter
> in one big book. That might make searching a bit easier. Links should
> work for the most part. I just tried Adobe Reader on Windows and am
> feeling a bit of pain... ;-)
It is very inconvenient to have to look for the pdfs, particularly
lacking their content showing on searches of the help system. As I
remember, through all the recent versions of the help system, it was
always possible to search everywhere from a single place. Now, one
needs to know that besides the help, there are those separate pdfs to
look into. Besides the inconvenience (I am probably going to use
Acrobat to join them into a single file, so that they become a bit
easier to use), it is not obvious that these separate files exist - I
only found out from this thread, and I was already missing some of the
content I knew was present in previous versions. So many users might
not find what they need just because it does not show up in the help
system.
At least there should be a way to launch the pdf reader on those pdfs
directly from the Workbench or the help system, so that it is visible
that they exist - if there is one already, it is not visible enough.
Of those pdfs, I particularly use most often the parts about the
internal API, the iTool classes, and the IMSL routines.
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| Re: 8.0 Developer Documentation [message #71967 is a reply to message #71929] |
Mon, 02 August 2010 08:42 |
Doug Edmundson
Messages: 58
Registered: November 2005
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Member |
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On 7/30/10 4:34 PM, Erik Rasmussen wrote:
> On Jul 30, 9:00 am, Doug Edmundson<do...@ittvis.com> wrote:
>> A lot of this has been moved into .../itt/idl/idl80/help/pdf/. If you
>> still can't find what you're looking for, let me know and I'll relay it
>> to the docs group.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Doug
>>
>> On 7/30/10 6:45 AM, Haje Korth wrote:
>>
>>> Ugh, indeed, a lot of help has gone MIA. Also, the IMSL_ routines are
>>> no longer listed. The PDFs are are still in the distribution, but who
>>> wants to use the pdfs???
>>
>>> On Jul 29, 6:34 pm, Paulo Penteado<pp.pente...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Indeed, it seems that a lot of the help has disappeared, not only
>>>> regarding the iTools. Which is a serious problem. It seems that the
>>>> contents that used to be in several of the "guides" has disappeared.
>>>> If it is there, I could not find.
>>
>>>> For instance, if I now search for DLM, all I find are the help pages
>>>> for dlm_load, dlm_register, and make_dll. In the old help, there used
>>>> to be a lot more, under
>>
>>>> IDL Programmers' Guides> External Development Guide> Part III:
>>>> Techniques That Use IDL's Internal API
>>
>>>> I also searched and browsed the new help, and could find nowhere the
>>>> description of the IDL_VARIABLE structure, which is in the 7.1 help. I
>>>> was particularly curious about that subject to find out how the
>>>> reference count got included into the pointers and objects while
>>>> keeping compatibility with the older versions.
>>
>>>> I have the same question as Erik: Where did those go? How do we get
>>>> them back (and updated)?
>>
>>>> It seems it is just a problem with the transition in the documentation
>>>> to the new format, since it is not specific to the iTools - and even
>>>> direct graphics are still around and present in the help.
>>
>>
>
> Hi Doug,
>
> I understand that the documentation is still being transitioned from
> the last system to the new one.
>
> I wonder if there is some way that ITTvis could make available a
> collection of html that comprises the 7.1 documentation as a temporary
> fix? Or perhaps is there some way to launch the 7.1 Help server
> without having the 7.1 Workbench running?
>
> For example, in the old system, I could use just about everything that
> showed up under IDL API Reference Guides -> IDL Reference Guide ->
> Part II: Object Class and Method Reference. If I had a folder with
> those html files, I would be in much better shape than now.
>
> Thanks...
>
> Erik
Hi Erik,
I've forwarded your idea on to the docs group. I talked to them last
week about the issue and I think they'd like to know which PDFs people
are using most. Are folks still heavy into iTools, dataminer, the EDG,
etc.? That info will help them gauge priorities.
The 7.1 help system should work on its own, sans workbench. It should
be in .../itt/IDL71/idlde/. Sorry if I'm misunderstanding your question.
I don't know if this'll help much, but note that on Mac one can open
multiple PDFs at the same time in Preview, as if they're all a chapter
in one big book. That might make searching a bit easier. Links should
work for the most part. I just tried Adobe Reader on Windows and am
feeling a bit of pain... ;-)
Cheers,
Doug
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| Re: 8.0 Developer Documentation [message #71979 is a reply to message #71929] |
Fri, 30 July 2010 15:34 |
Erik Rasmussen
Messages: 7
Registered: July 2010
|
Junior Member |
|
|
On Jul 30, 9:00 am, Doug Edmundson <do...@ittvis.com> wrote:
> A lot of this has been moved into .../itt/idl/idl80/help/pdf/. If you
> still can't find what you're looking for, let me know and I'll relay it
> to the docs group.
>
> Cheers,
> Doug
>
> On 7/30/10 6:45 AM, Haje Korth wrote:
>
>> Ugh, indeed, a lot of help has gone MIA. Also, the IMSL_ routines are
>> no longer listed. The PDFs are are still in the distribution, but who
>> wants to use the pdfs???
>
>> On Jul 29, 6:34 pm, Paulo Penteado<pp.pente...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Indeed, it seems that a lot of the help has disappeared, not only
>>> regarding the iTools. Which is a serious problem. It seems that the
>>> contents that used to be in several of the "guides" has disappeared.
>>> If it is there, I could not find.
>
>>> For instance, if I now search for DLM, all I find are the help pages
>>> for dlm_load, dlm_register, and make_dll. In the old help, there used
>>> to be a lot more, under
>
>>> IDL Programmers' Guides> External Development Guide> Part III:
>>> Techniques That Use IDL's Internal API
>
>>> I also searched and browsed the new help, and could find nowhere the
>>> description of the IDL_VARIABLE structure, which is in the 7.1 help. I
>>> was particularly curious about that subject to find out how the
>>> reference count got included into the pointers and objects while
>>> keeping compatibility with the older versions.
>
>>> I have the same question as Erik: Where did those go? How do we get
>>> them back (and updated)?
>
>>> It seems it is just a problem with the transition in the documentation
>>> to the new format, since it is not specific to the iTools - and even
>>> direct graphics are still around and present in the help.
>
>
Hi Doug,
I understand that the documentation is still being transitioned from
the last system to the new one.
I wonder if there is some way that ITTvis could make available a
collection of html that comprises the 7.1 documentation as a temporary
fix? Or perhaps is there some way to launch the 7.1 Help server
without having the 7.1 Workbench running?
For example, in the old system, I could use just about everything that
showed up under IDL API Reference Guides -> IDL Reference Guide ->
Part II: Object Class and Method Reference. If I had a folder with
those html files, I would be in much better shape than now.
Thanks...
Erik
|
|
|
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| Re: 8.0 Developer Documentation [message #71981 is a reply to message #71929] |
Fri, 30 July 2010 14:06 |
Haje Korth
Messages: 651
Registered: May 1997
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Hi Doug,
I hate the pdfs because they have to be individually opened and
searched. The content of these documents should be available in the
help browser as it was in the past. This is my strong opinion, whether
or not this changes anything is another question. :-)
Haje
On Jul 30, 11:00 am, Doug Edmundson <do...@ittvis.com> wrote:
> A lot of this has been moved into .../itt/idl/idl80/help/pdf/. If you
> still can't find what you're looking for, let me know and I'll relay it
> to the docs group.
>
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